Various Blohm und Voss projects

Stargazer2006

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The MBI book on the Heinkel He 162 presents several contenders in the "Volksjäger" competition, including the Blohm & Voss P 211.

Blohm und Voss came up with a very simple-looking design, an unswept high-wing concept together with an unswept tail fixed on a tubular spar, which was connected to a fuselage nacelle equipped with a nose air intake and featuring a retractable nose landing gear.

A few days later, the company converted the offered type P 211 to a low-wing aircraft with a swept wing and a delta-shaped tail. In this configuration, the P 211, once considered the favorite for the tender, could according to calculations achieve a maximum speed of up to 865 km/h and reach an altitude of 8,000 meters. Its highest speed at sea level to reach 765 km/h, while the maximum initial rate of climb would be 17.8 m/s. The aircraft was to be equipped with two 30 mm cannons.
Attached below are three-view arrangements of the two proposals described above.
 

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hesham

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Hi,


from the book; Blohm & Voss Bv.138,by Heinz J. Nowarra,here is the Bv P.110,
and also the P.111 with a more info about P series,which was connected with
Bv.138.
 

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Stargazer2006

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Wow! That BV P.111 was really taking the word "asymmetric" to a whole new level!!! :eek:
 

Johnbr

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It is pdf file just click on it.
 

Stargazer2006

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Oh, ok! Thanks a lot for the tip! ;)
 

hesham

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Hi,


the Blohm and Voss P.188 early four studied designs.
 

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hesham

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Hi,


from the file, Projektbeschreibung Blohm & Voss BV-P 215.
 

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Avimimus

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Those R4M installations always made me worry about gas injestion
 

TsrJoe

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the Blohm und Voss P.211 'minimal fighter' design shown earlier, was it intended primarily for wooden construction ? or metal skinned ? or a mixture of the two similar to the He.162 Spatz ?

cheers, Joe
 

Jemiba

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Avimimus said:
Those R4M installations always made me worry about gas injestion
The main exhaust of the rockets was diverted via vents, I think.
What would be of interest to me, is the tiltable installation in pic 6, called "Geradbahnschuß"
(straight line shot). For a use as a kind of "schräge Musik" the angle is too low, I think.
So, what was it for ?
 

Avimimus

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My guess is that it would be desirable to have the target elevated high enough that there was no chance of it being obscured by the nose. If you lose sight of a target at night it can be very hard to spot again.


On the other hand, oblique guns typically required flying at speeds that were close to those of the aircraft being attacked - hence the emphasis on surprise attacks from the darker area below the target. The surface area of the target is much larger when viewed from below, but the tactic was apparently still reliant upon nearly matching speeds. Obviously, this is less than ideal in a high speed jet platform - so the tendency might have been to lower the level of obliqueness.


A fully mobile installation capable of tracking the target as the 215 passed under it might also have worked. Is there any evidence that these were two fixed positions rather than a fully mobile installation? I know that mobile installations were being experimented with for the Hs-129 during this period (similar to the KABB projects in Russia).
 

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The idea with keeping the target in sight may well be valid, the lower angle, than in other oblique
gun installations could be result of the higher approaching speeds with this night fighter. With those
five Mk 19 a short burst would have been enough to kill a heavy bomber, contrary two just two
MG 151/20 as often used. A fully movable, or beter horizontally stepless movable installation probably
would have meant a movable sight, I think, as in a gun turret. For the pilot, this would have meant a
tremendous workload, flying the aircraft and keeping the sight on target. Could have been a task for
the crew member besides him, but the gun sight is shown at the pilots station, so I wold guess, that
only two positions were envisaged.
 

hesham

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Hi,


in the file called; Kurzbeschreibung Miniatur-Jager mit P 213,here is the Blohm
and Voss P.213 in details.
 

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Grey Havoc

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hesham said:
Hi,


in the file called; Kurzbeschreibung Miniatur-Jager mit P 213,here is the Blohm
and Voss P.213 in details.
Pulse-jet powered, armed with a MK 108 cannon. One of the projects under the Miniaturjägerprogramm, part of the overall Jägernotprogramm (Emergency Fighter Program).
 

hesham

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Thank you my dear Grey.
 

hesham

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Hi,


from the book; Bron Strategiczna Trzeciej Rzeszy,here is the P.188 in details.
 

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hesham

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Stargazer,


I meant the internal constructions of each drawing,and not the variants.
 

Stargazer2006

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hesham said:
I meant the internal constructions of each drawing,and not the variants.
Then it's best to say "here is the Blohm and Voss P.213.01.01 in details" and "here is the P.188.02 in details" to avoid confusion.
 

hesham

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Marvelous drawings Kirado,thank you for sharing us.
 

richard

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kiradog said:
More P.188 drawings. Note tilt/adjustable wing used for takeoff

Thank you ! this adjustable wing for the P 188 was unknown for me : The same was used for the BV 144 ...
 

Stargazer2006

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I've often wondered why the concept of adjustable wings, which provide increased incidence for STOL properties at takeoff, has never been more exploited in the course of aviation history. It would seem to me like a very sound and efficient addition to many aircraft.
 

Kartek

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Adds lots of weight and complexity when you can get the same effect with just more nose-up pitch.
 

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That's seems to me to be a gross oversimplification. A variable incidence wing can be particularly useful for carrier operations to keep the nose down for visibility at low speeds and allow the gear to be short and strong. The Vought F8 Crusader was a good example as was the Supermarine 322 Dumbo, which would have outperformed the Fairey Barracuda using the same powerplant had it ever gone into production.

Kartek said:
Adds lots of weight and complexity when you can get the same effect with just more nose-up pitch.
 

Jemiba

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Correct, but as you mentioned, all aircraft, that actually used this technology were built as carrier aircraft.
But maybe it was seen as a way to achieve STOL performance for bigger aircrat and so reduce dependency
of long runways. During that stage of war, large airfields already were a prime target.
 

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The Skyhawk, F-5 and English Phantoms all used longer nose gear to achieve the same effect with no significant visibility problems during approach or landing, CV or otherwise.
 

Jemiba

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Kartek

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Justo Miranda said:
Germany 1945....short takeoff run! ::)
That's kinda what I'm wondering too since they are tilting the thrust as well as the wing.
B&V did some tre weird stuff, just because it's German doesn't mean it was a good idea lol.
 

Stargazer2006

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Kartek said:
B&V did some tre weird stuff, just because it's German doesn't mean it was a good idea lol.
Ha ha! I like that! Welcome to the forum Kartek!
 

Kartek

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Stargazer2006 said:
Kartek said:
B&V did some tre weird stuff, just because it's German doesn't mean it was a good idea lol.
Ha ha! I like that! Welcome to the forum Kartek!
Thanks, I've been looking to get back into aviation after a long stint in firearms.
Found this place while looking for a photo I used to have of the McDonnell swing wing mock-up but never found it :-( lol
 

Jemiba

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The writing says "Flügel in Landestellung", which means :wing in landing position, so the reason really
seems to have been a better STOL performance and not for the use of weapons.
 

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Kartek

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Jemiba said:
The writing says "Flügel in Landestellung", which means :wing in landing position, so the reason really
seems to have been a better STOL performance and not for the use of weapons.
Thanks for the translate.
Surely they meant take-off AND landing since landing would imply a lighter load and thus naturally easier/shorter landings than take-offs.
 
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