Tzoli, Im curious which source you used for the Dutch Vickers design 767 of 1920 and are there more details or correspondance with the Dutch authorities?
The Java was launched in 1921 and commissioned in 1925, her sister ship Sumatra in 1920, commissioned in 1926 and the building of the Celebes even stopped and cancelled. The necessary budget was in 1919 only authorized if the Celebes was stopped. So there would be no chance to build another cruiser despite earlier plans.
Norman Friedman British Cruisers: Two-World Wars and After.
As I don't speak dutch I does not have any Dutch naval books on the subject. I only have what is Friedman wrote that this design was offered by Vickers in the early 1920's possibly as a proposal for further cruiser construction if the Dutch Parliament vote for naval expansion.
 
Norman Friedman British Cruisers: Two-World Wars and After.
As I don't speak dutch I does not have any Dutch naval books on the subject. I only have what is Friedman wrote that this design was offered by Vickers in the early 1920's possibly as a proposal for further cruiser construction if the Dutch Parliament vote for naval expansion.
Thx, I have Friedman in my possession and have a look in my notes and Dutch literature.
 
Tzoli, could you please post information on the Vickers light cruiser proposals for Estonia & Cuba?

Thanks.
 
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Hello, have you seen the design drawings of submarines "Vickers Export Design 1067" and "Vickers Export Design 1068"?
 
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I don't remember having seen any export submarine drawings.
 
Do you have any further information relating to the 1957 Dreadnought preliminary design, with 4 propellors?
 
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Do you have any further details of the small fleet aircraft carrier design 1954, the medium fleet aircraft carrier design 1954 or the medium fleet aircraft carrier design 1955?
 
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Rebuilding the Royal Navy by David K. Brown & George Moore:
The part about Nuclear Submarines, Dreadnought in particular:

A considerable number of propeller designs were tested at model scale at Haslar. The interaction between the flow over the hull and into the propeller affected both efficiency and noise. Power is lost due to friction of the water in the flow over the hull and much of this loss can be recovered if the flow is channelled through the propeller. In general the bigger the propeller the more efficient and quieter it would be, but the bigger propellers needed to run at very low rpm – the biggest model propeller had a full-scale diameter well over 30ft and ran at impossibly low speed.24 To our surprise we were past the optimum and a slightly smaller propeller would have been better.25 It had long been realised that a single propeller was more efficient than two but the redundancy of two shaft lines was initially preferred by operators in all navies.26 The success of uss Albacore made it clear that the advantages of the single shaft were overwhelming. A small retractable propulsor was fitted.27
26 There was even a four-shaft study with a propeller in each quadrant!
 
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From British Aircraft Carriers Design, Development and Service Histories - David Hobbs:
Much smaller carriers
Even before the termination of the 1952 project the DAW asked for studies to examine the cost and capability of carriers about the size of the 1942 light fleet carriers which had performed so well in Korean operations. The first of these depicted a ship capable of operating twenty-eight aircraft the size of the Supermarine N-113 Scimitar. A 6.5-degree angled deck would give the same landing area as that designed for the reconstructed Hermes, with four Mark 13 arrester wires on a 20,000-ton hull. A single steam catapult with 180ft stroke was positioned on the angled deck sponson to port,
and the small island was well inboard, allowing aircraft to taxi outboard of it. Although the hull was similar to that of the Colossus Class the design was proposed for new-build ships, not reconstructions, and machinery of greater power was to give them a maximum speed of 28 knots. The flight deck had large overhangs to port and starboard which allowed sufficient space for a deck park of twenty aircraft, which increased the overall width from the 112ft 6in of the earlier light fleet carriers to 144ft, 21 per cent of the ship’s length. Overall length remained 695ft. There was only one lift, 65ft long by 35ft wide, situated almost exactly amidships. It served two small hangars, one forward and one aft, each 125ft long, 50ft wide, 17ft 6in high and capable of taking four aircraft. The lift obtruded into the landing area and could not be used during aircraft recoveries. A typical air group was to comprise twelve Scimitars, twelve Sea Vixens and four AEW aircraft, with two small SAR helicopters.
The most interesting feature of the design was that it was intended to be ‘suitable for conversion to operate VTO [vertical take-off] aircraft’. These were an exciting prospect at the time, although no design was mature enough to offer the prospect of operational capability in under a decade. It was assumed that VTO aircraft would always land with their nose into the relative wind, but that the ship need not turn into wind for it to do so. A circle 72ft in diameter was projected at the centre of deck movement on which VTO aircraft would land and then taxi clear into the deck park, leaving room for the next aircraft to land seconds later. So that funnel smoke would not interfere with cross-deck landing, the design included two funnels, the one furthest from the landing circle being selected for use as appropriate. Details of how to mount masts, radar arrays and aerials on the small island were not worked out in detail but, viewed in hindsight, the design has more merit than the later Invincible Class, in which cross-deck landing was severely impractical but not impossible. Not all aircraft types would have become VTO at once, of course, and these ships might have offered a ‘crossover’ capability if they had retained their catapult and arrester wires, giving the latent ability to operate a mix of Kestrel/Sea Harrier/AV-8 and Gannet AEW aircraft with helicopters and legacy fighters such as the Sea Vixen, used for electronic attack.
Unfortunately, as things turned out, the design was not taken forward because VTO technology was considered to be too immature to justify the cost of investment and there was too little potential for strike warfare with large aircraft like the projected Blackburn NA-39, which was to become the Buccaneer. Like the 1952 carrier, this sketch was never given a formal name.
Undaunted by the rejection of the N-113/VTO convertible carrier, the DAW made another suggestion in late 1953, aimed at producing an inexpensive trade-protection carrier capable of operating the new generation of high-performance fighters. It would also be capable, when required, of embarking suitable aircraft to augment the strike fleet. Like the small carrier just described, the new sketch produced by DNC in February 1954 was based on the 1942 light fleet carrier hull, and there is evidence in their ships’ covers that consideration was given to converting some ships to this standard. The key to the operation of heavier and more powerful aircraft was acceptance of the fact that they could not be launched and recovered at the same time. A landing area angled 2 degrees to port was to be offset slightly to port of the centreline, with its sponson’s weight balanced by a long sponson on the starboard, giving room for a deck park around the new island structure in Fly 2. Two new lifts stressed for heavier aircraft would have been installed closer together than those in the 1942 design; the after one was forward of the four Mark 13 arrester wires. A new steam catapult with 180ft stroke was projected for the starboard side of Fly 1, with the catapult aircraft line-up equipment (CALE) gear aft of it, level with and to starboard of the forward lift. Both lifts obtruded into the landing area and needed to be up during a recovery; the forward lift needed to be up during catapult launches. Some space on the starboard side of Fly 1 was available for use as a deck park during recoveries, but the angle was not great enough to make much of it available. The only defensive armament would have been twin Mark 5 Bofors mountings, one sited forward and aft of the port and starboard sponsons. The island, masts and radar arrays were not worked out in detail, but would probably have resembled smaller versions of those with which the 1943 light fleet carriers were completed at about the same time. The air group would have been about twenty, with a smaller deck park than the earlier concept but a larger hangar.

Medium aircraft carrier studies
Drawings were produced by the DNC to show that the new generation of aircraft could be operated from a ship ‘grown’ to about 24,000 tons from the 1942 light fleet carrier design. He argued, however, that a larger hull would give a steadier flight deck, would be less cramped, would have better sighting opportunities for radar and other essential equipment, better aircraft handling and control arrangements and, not least, allow space to absorb new, as yet unknown, generations of aircraft. In November 1954 a design study for a 28,000-ton carrier was presented to the Admiralty Board for comment. It had an angled deck and was expected to have a similar aircraft complement to the redesigned Hermes, at about thirtyeight aircraft. Again costs were constrained by limiting the defensive armament to four twin Mark 5 Bofors mountings, as there was insufficient space for Mark 6 twin 3in mountings. Machinery developing 100,000shp on two shafts was to deliver 28 knots at deep load six months out of dock. The DNC did not regard this as a balanced design, and at their meeting in December 1954 the Board described the design as ‘too big for a small carrier and too small for a big carrier’. It was not taken further.
Subsequent interest centred on the design of a larger carrier of about 35,000 tons, the same as the reconstructed Victorious. By 1955 this was considered to be the smallest ship that could operate modern aircraft in effective numbers, and was described by the DNC as ‘in effect a general-purpose carrier which, while not being so large as to be wasted in the trade protection role, could carry a considerable strike force as an alternative when required’. A typical air group could include up to forty-eight aircraft. The larger tonnage led to a three-shaft arrangement being proposed, developing 135,000shp to produce 30 knots six months out of dock. Defensive armament was to be a mix of Mark 6 twin 3in/70-calibre mountings and six-barrelled Bofors. The design underwent continuing development, and three ships appeared in the 1959-60 Long-term costing, for completion between 1970 and 1973. Initially they were intended to cost £18 million each, but as the detailed design evolved the weight increased and more equipment was added. From the time Lord Mountbatten became First Sea Lord in 1954 he took a close interest in the design and insisted that anti-aircraft missiles be added, as it appeared unlikely that the Admiralty would gain funding for a class of missile cruisers intended for task force defence. The design incorporated 2,700 tons of armoured plate and eventually grew to a deep-load displacement of 45,000 tons. These ships were never formally cancelled, but the requirement was eventually superseded by aircraft carrier Project 35, which became known as CVA-01. Despite searches of the relevant ships’ covers at Woolwich, no sketch drawing of the design has been located.
 
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From British Aircraft Carriers Design, Development and Service Histories - David Hobbs:
There is a new Commonwealth line coming to World of Warships. I wonder if you could find some truth to their designs based on Export or Royal Navy designs?
 
There is a new Commonwealth line coming to World of Warships. I wonder if you could find some truth to their designs based on Export or Royal Navy designs?
I highly doubt that. Both Wargaming and Lesta long ago dropped any pretense of being "historically accurate". Their new lines are mostly "cheap and dirty" reuse of already modelled elements under vague "what-if" justification. They are more concerned about making new content cheap and fast, than accurate.
 
I highly doubt that. Both Wargaming and Lesta long ago dropped any pretense of being "historically accurate". Their new lines are mostly "cheap and dirty" reuse of already modelled elements under vague "what-if" justification. They are more concerned about making new content cheap and fast, than accurate.
Even though most of their over sized versions of the County class are fictional, they would definitely suffer from the same issues the actual county class had.
 

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