• Hi Guest! Forum rules have been updated. All users please read here.

Russian and Soviet Aircraft Carriers

stashandr

CLEARANCE: Confidential
Joined
Jul 9, 2007
Messages
54
Reaction score
3
Project 1153 is 1977 year design.

You forget light aircraft carrier (1968) - nuclear or conventionally powered, 50000 t, 280x60 m, 38 aircrafts (attached).
 

stashandr

CLEARANCE: Confidential
Joined
Jul 9, 2007
Messages
54
Reaction score
3
Re: Future Russian aircraft carrier

Additional image
 

Tzoli

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Joined
Feb 1, 2011
Messages
758
Reaction score
310
I did not forget it. I did not known about it!!!!
I can't seem to find any info about it either!

And thanks for the correction. Dunno from where I've got that year!
 

Jemiba

CLEARANCE: Above Top Secret
Staff member
Top Contributor
Senior Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2006
Messages
8,052
Reaction score
298
Re: Future Russian aircraft carrier

The ski jump seems to have quite a shallow angle and, if the parts I've marked red, actually are the catapult tracks,
they end before the ski-jump. Quite unique arrangement !
 

Attachments

gollevainen

CLEARANCE: Confidential
Joined
May 2, 2007
Messages
67
Reaction score
0
Thats actually my drawing (what is with people who keep removing the credits?), based on the sole existing drawing of the ALV project. Mine is for my alternative universum project, done few years ago. The orginal image appeared in russian naval magazine Gangut and have been published in various other books as well.
Very little is known about this design, other than it's supposed to be 50 000t full load and 280m long. Propulsion either steam or combined nuclear/steam arragment. It was supposed to carry 38 planes; 28 fighters, 4 AEW planes, 2 recce planes and 4 helicopters.
If you guys have patience until late this year, I will post "all what I know" about the soviet carrier programs alongside with new updated and detailed shipbucket drawings.
 

Antonio

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Staff member
Senior Member
Joined
Jan 22, 2006
Messages
3,380
Reaction score
61
If you guys have patience until late this year
No problem, I can wait for that. ;)
 

Tzoli

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Joined
Feb 1, 2011
Messages
758
Reaction score
310
gollevainen said:
Thats actually my drawing (what is with people who keep removing the credits?), based on the sole existing drawing of the ALV project. Mine is for my alternative universum project, done few years ago. The orginal image appeared in russian naval magazine Gangut and have been published in various other books as well.
Very little is known about this design, other than it's supposed to be 50 000t full load and 280m long. Propulsion either steam or combined nuclear/steam arragment. It was supposed to carry 38 planes; 28 fighters, 4 AEW planes, 2 recce planes and 4 helicopters.
If you guys have patience until late this year, I will post "all what I know" about the soviet carrier programs alongside with new updated and detailed shipbucket drawings.
So Project 1150 is your creation based on some data.
I think it would be better to see the original drawings rather the shipbucket ones.
 

stashandr

CLEARANCE: Confidential
Joined
Jul 9, 2007
Messages
54
Reaction score
3
Tzoli said:
So Project 1150 is your creation based on some data.
I think it would be better to see the original drawings rather the shipbucket ones.
Designation "1150" is fake, it called "light aircraft carrier".
I have an original drawing, but not in electronic version.
 

gollevainen

CLEARANCE: Confidential
Joined
May 2, 2007
Messages
67
Reaction score
0
So Project 1150 is your creation based on some data.
I think it would be
better to see the original drawings rather the shipbucket ones.
Yes, people would be more aware if they didn't remove the credits and labels of the drawing.
And as for the rest of the carriers, trust me, the shipbucket drawings (showing them in orginal fit) will be worth a wait, they will become the "standard" illustrations of these projects after I've done with them;)
 

blackstar

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Sep 26, 2008
Messages
1,702
Reaction score
40
gollevainen said:
Thats actually my drawing (what is with people who keep removing the credits?),
If people keep doing that to you, you need to start putting the credits on or over the drawing. Stealing is annoying. I know.
 

Evil Flower

CLEARANCE: Secret
Joined
Oct 12, 2006
Messages
223
Reaction score
2
Re: Future Russian aircraft carrier

Maybe they're EM catapults combined with a ski-jump?
 

Jemiba

CLEARANCE: Above Top Secret
Staff member
Top Contributor
Senior Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2006
Messages
8,052
Reaction score
298
Re: Future Russian aircraft carrier

At least it would be the first carrier, where the catapult track doesn't end at the
deck edge. So there will be a strong deceleration after leaving the cat hook, I think.
 

tround

I really should change my personal text
Joined
Oct 28, 2012
Messages
149
Reaction score
1
Re: Future Russian aircraft carrier

A ski jump with a catapult ? For what ? With 80000 tons the catapults are enough .
The ski jump is for small aircrafts carrier , no ?
Is there a embarked plane which would need such a system ?
How many additional planes can be embarked ? Not much .

I find also strange , the design of the elevators .
 

SOC

I look at pictures all day
Senior Member
Joined
Jan 24, 2006
Messages
1,179
Reaction score
9
Re: Future Russian aircraft carrier

tround said:
A ski jump with a catapult ? For what ? With 80000 tons the catapults are enough .
[font=verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif]Maybe this reduces wear or is more efficient somehow?
[/font]

tround said:
The ski jump is for small aircrafts carrier , no ?
Is there a embarked plane which would need such a system ?

Admiral Kuznetsov isn't exactly small, neither is the Chinese version, and they both use ski-jumps for Su-27 derivatives.


Maybe that's the answer: combining a short cat with the ski-jump is enough to get a fully loaded FLANKER or PAK-FA into the air.


tround said:
How many additional planes can be embarked ? Not much .
[font=verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif]As many as they can fit into the hangar deck?
[/font]
tround said:
I find also strange , the design of the elevators .

Howso? They look big enough to move the PAK-FA around.
 

Cadre

I really should change my personal text
Joined
Jun 4, 2013
Messages
1
Reaction score
0
Re: Future Russian aircraft carrier

Nils_D said:
Maybe they're EM catapults combined with a ski-jump?
So does that mean that the aircraft will be hitting the ski jump at full take off speed?
 

bring_it_on

I really should change my personal text
Joined
Jul 4, 2013
Messages
1,976
Reaction score
46
Re: Future Russian aircraft carrier

When is the expected In service date....
 

Thorvic

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2006
Messages
601
Reaction score
11
Re: Future Russian aircraft carrier

bring_it_on said:
When is the expected In service date....
At the moment its only a long term requirement for the 2020's, they haven't selected a design yet, the Navy focus os on the new Submarines, Frigates and seeing how they get on building their own edition of the Mistral class.

Model looks nice but AFAIK it just there to show they are now looking to replace the Kuznetsov eventually (and drop hints to prospective customers)
 

Hood

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Sep 6, 2006
Messages
1,402
Reaction score
290
There are probably a host of other lost carrier designs out there too.

Vadim Kolnogorov's article 'To Be or Not To Be: The Development of Soviet Deck Aviation' in The Journal of Strategic Studies, Vol. 28, No. 2, 339 – 359, April 2005, is an interesting overview.

A commission (including a sub-commission on carriers) was set up by Kuznetsov in early January 1945. The sub-committee's report was 'Considerations on the Selection of Aircraft Carriers for the USSR Navy'. The commission presented 33 variants of aircraft carrier designs 24 convoy carriers, 3 light carriers, 4 squadron carriers and 2 heavy aircraft carriers. These were the four classes of carrier the commission felt they needed. The Navy General Staff called for 9 large (6 Pacific, 3 Northern) and 6 small carriers (all Northern). The government wanted this number reduced. A later joint NII-45/ TsKB-17 study was the 1959-60 30 aircraft PBIA (floating dock for fighter aviation) to avoid the term aircraft carrier!

The article raises a couple of interesting aircraft questions. While the Pr.85 was being designed, Kuznetsov sent a draft report to the government for the Ministry of Shipbuilding’s approval which included proposals for a light carrier with 22 MiG-15 and two helicopters. Kolnogorov mentions another aircraft project at this time, a proposal named Tigr (Tiger) based on the MiG-19. What was this variant and was it a MiG submission? A table shows the naval MiG-15 and Tigr both being in design in 1955 and both being cancelled the following year. A later 'Fighter Jet Tender' is dated in the table to 1959-61. These were terminated as the PBIA study was abandoned and the shift made to helicopter cruisers but no detail on the fighters in the tender are offered.
 

gollevainen

CLEARANCE: Confidential
Joined
May 2, 2007
Messages
67
Reaction score
0
Yeah I could kill someone for few days in Severnaya design bureuys archives with a scanner...

But in seriousness, the soviet carrier aircraft development is far more mysterious than the actual carrier development (at least for me who has been interessed over it for so long now) up until the pr. 1160 from which onwards the air crews are rather well known. There is some carrier planes like the famous Tu-91 bomber and not so well known Tupolev project 509 design as well as NII's turboprop torbedobomber mentioned in various sources but none of them are never mentioned in any of the sources about the actual carrier projects. Pr. 85 dating 1954 would fit the same timeframe as Tu-91 but there is no mentioning of the plane in any of the references about Pr.85 (most notably in the Gangut n:eek: 12 article).
 

Hood

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Sep 6, 2006
Messages
1,402
Reaction score
290
The Kolnogorov article mentions the Tu-91 at the same time as the Pr.85 but does not specifically say it was connected to that ship. It seems fighters were the main carrier-based tool; "A series of scientific-technical and experimental engineering tasks were designated for the aircraft carrier design process, as was the realization in 1956–57 of top-priority undertakings to create a deckbased fighter jet, catapult, batsmen, a land-based training and experimental flight-deck and others." This seems to imply a strong emphasis on fighter-defence of the fleet than any long-range strike force.

The table of projects makes reference to the 507 and 509 aircraft. 507: in development 1950, cancelled 1951; 509: in development 1950-53, cancelled 1954. The Tu-91 was developed from 1953 and cancelled in 1957. The Pr.85 was developed 1953-56. So 507 and 509 predate it, Tu-91 perfectly ties with those dates, as do the MiG-17/ Tigr fighter projects. The later 1959-61 Jet Fighter Tender is somewhat later.
 

gollevainen

CLEARANCE: Confidential
Joined
May 2, 2007
Messages
67
Reaction score
0
Nice to see new angle pics of these designs. That last one has intrigued me quite along now, would die a little to get some info about it's lenght/displacement.
 

M. A. Rozon

CLEARANCE: Confidential
Joined
Feb 17, 2007
Messages
75
Reaction score
0
gollevainen said:
Nice to see new angle pics of these designs. That last one has intrigued me quite along now, would die a little to get some info about it's lenght/displacement.
Offhand, I would say that it is probably very close, if not identical, to Project 1143. The proportions of all components seem to match as do the sizes of the aircraft with respect to the ship. The ski-jump flight deck portion of the flight deck replacing the missile and gun batteries does change the appearance a bit with the length overall probably being increased a bit but everything else seems to match.

Bigger Guns, MORE POWER!
B)
 

blackstar

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Sep 26, 2008
Messages
1,702
Reaction score
40
Is there any good article (in English) that describes Soviet/Russian aircraft carrier projects?
 

Triton

Donald McKelvy
Senior Member
Joined
Aug 14, 2009
Messages
9,723
Reaction score
236
Website
deeptowild.blogspot.com
Re: Future Russian aircraft carrier

From paralay via Google Translate:

Design and construction of perspective for the Russian Navy aircraft carrier can cost the state budget of 400 billion rubles. It is reported by the Central Navy Portal, citing a Krylovskogo state scientific center, the project developer promising concept ship. Cost carrier directly estimated at 80 billion rubles.

Model aircraft carrier sea complex displacement of about [80,000] tons was presented at the International Maritime Defense Show, held in St. Petersburg. According to the publication, the ship will receive two jumping and four catapults, and Fleet Air Arm aircraft carrier will ship up to 40 multi-role combat aircraft: deck version of the fighter T-50 (PAK FA) and MiG-29K/KUB. Concept project involves the installation of non-nuclear aircraft carrier at the power plant.

According to preliminary data, the features of the project will allow the ship to reach speeds up to 30 knots, despite the large size and displacement. Earlier it was reported that the design of a new aircraft carrier for the Russian Navy will be completed in 2018, four years later than previously planned. In the same year, and is scheduled to begin construction of the ship.

In the current program of armaments for 2011-2020 Russian design and construction of an aircraft carrier is not included, but it is expected that the funding of this project will be included in a new program for 2016-2025 years arms. This document is expected to be presented to the President of Russia in 2015.
Source:
http://paralay.com/atakr.html
 

Attachments

Triton

Donald McKelvy
Senior Member
Joined
Aug 14, 2009
Messages
9,723
Reaction score
236
Website
deeptowild.blogspot.com
Re: Future Russian aircraft carrier

Previous aircraft carrier design based upon modified Project 1143.7 Ulyanovsk-class design.

Source:
http://paralay.com/atakr.html
http://bastion-karpenko.narod.ru/AW_XXI_01.html
http://takr-kiev.ucoz.com/forum/105-169-2
 

Attachments

Pioneer

Seek out and close with the enemy
Senior Member
Joined
May 22, 2006
Messages
1,676
Reaction score
46
stashandr said:
Another view of Mercury
Sorry gents, but do we have more details on this "Mercury" carrier project? i.e. Project number etc??
Regards
Pioneer
 

H_K

CLEARANCE: Restricted
Joined
Feb 21, 2010
Messages
25
Reaction score
4
Aircraft Carrier Projects "Mercury" and "Dolphin" (loose translation)
http://militaryrussia.ru/blog/topic-370.html
http://topwar.ru/1601-povoroty-syuzheta.html

Schemes for an air defense task force leader capable of operating Yak-141 VTOL fighters were drawn up in 1986 by Northern PKB (Leningrad), under chief designer A.K. Shnyrov. Complete freedom of design was given to explore alternatives and find novel solutions within a 16,500 ton displacement limit.

Three alternatives were drawn up: 'Mercury', a 225 meter long conventional monohull and "Dolphin", a 140-170 meter long small waterplane area hull in catamaran and trimaran versions. The SWATH hulls had better seakeeping, but only a small hangar in the island, since there was no space below deck. Target air group was at least 10 Yak-141 fighters and 4 helicopters.

Development was discontinued in the early 1990s with the cancellation of the Yak-141.

Edit: Sorry for the earlier hotlinking... didn't know how to attach pictures. I removed some double-posted pics - see Pometablava's earlier post for those.
Source: see the two links above.
 

Attachments

Jemiba

CLEARANCE: Above Top Secret
Staff member
Top Contributor
Senior Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2006
Messages
8,052
Reaction score
298
Well, triton is absolutely right, we are well advised to attach photos or drawings directly,
so avoiding the danger of losing information in the case of changes or deletions to the source
site. And even in the case of hotlinking, please don't forget to mention the original source, thank you !
;)
 

kaiserbill

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Joined
Jun 7, 2006
Messages
1,262
Reaction score
51
At 1:24 to 1:50 on this new video of a naval/hydrodynamics institute, there is a Russian aircraft carrier model that isn't on this thread so far, as far as I can see.


It has two islands, and the model has Sukhoi T-50/PAK FA models on the flight deck.
There is also a label on it, but I don't read or understand Russian.


Can somebody who speaks the language please give a description of what this is?

Also, in light of Triton and Jemibas remarks above, can somebody less technologically challenged than me try and grab the images from the video so as to post it here for keeps?


EDIT:
I see this has just in the last few hours been posted to youtube, and the description says the Krylov State Research Centre.
So I've modified the link below. The request of a pic grab from the video is still a good idea IMHO...




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=37VJgOJpU78#t=84
 

kaiserbill

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Joined
Jun 7, 2006
Messages
1,262
Reaction score
51
Thanks Blackstar.


I've not seen this design before.
It looks large, with a beam in the Nimitz class size if the scaling of the aircraft models are even roughly correct.


Anybody know anything further about it?
What is that label/description in the first pic, and what was said in the video?
 

archipeppe

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Joined
Oct 18, 2007
Messages
1,568
Reaction score
87
kaiserbill said:
Thanks Blackstar.


I've not seen this design before.
It looks large, with a beam in the Nimitz class size if the scaling of the aircraft models are even roughly correct.


Anybody know anything further about it?
What is that label/description in the first pic, and what was said in the video?

Except for the island design (that it seems to be a brand new one) the general ship's layout is reminiscent of the previous (and never realized) Ulyianovsk class of mid 80's.
 

fightingirish

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Jun 3, 2006
Messages
2,171
Reaction score
186
This model of future Russian aircraft carrier is designed by the Krylov Shipbuilding Research Institute and was unveiled at the International Maritime Defence Show 2013 in St. Petersburg, Russia.
If I remember correctly, this model is a non-nuclear version of a concept by Krylov.
 

kaiserbill

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Joined
Jun 7, 2006
Messages
1,262
Reaction score
51
Thanks fightingIrish.


I've had a google, and there is indeed one or two (blurred) pics of the model on the net from St Petersburg, if one puts the research institutes name in for the search.
 
Top