Little-Known French Projects and Prototypes

[Stargazer]

This was not a suggestion by Guynemer, but by Lorin!

Please try not to assert things if you're not sure. The article makes it pretty clear.

 

[hesham]

From l'Aeronautique journal,


here is the Robert Ferber XI very light biplane powered by one 7 hp engine driven
two propellers,he was the son of Ferdinand Ferber.

 

[cluttonfred]

Neat, and considering the engine had a 1.1 litre and made those seven horsepower at only 1500 rpm, I bet those were more robust horses than we are used to in today's high-revving little engines. Do you have a date for the source?

 

[hesham]

Neat, and considering the engine had a 1.1 litre and made those seven horsepower at only 1500 rpm, I bet those were more robust horses than we are used to in today's high-revving little engines. Do you have a date for the source?

Yes my dear Cluttonfred,


it is l'Aeronautique August 1923.

 

[hesham]

In l'Aeronautique 1929,


here is a new idea by that time to fight against fire,but I am carious about the flying boat drawing,
was it just a hypothetical aircraft or real one ?,when I used the Google translate for the text,I found
that;



The fight against the fire on aircraft C. F. P. Wes. made an edit on this plate
M.H. Brunat, head of the Central Security Service at Air Ministry. The illustrations were executed by
our technical designer J. Gaudefroy. We publish below, a few sketches, taken from the most suggestive,
This clear and well-ordered that the C.F.P. Aé study.send on demand, and is an extremely codification
interesting simple rules whose application significantly reduce the risk of fire.

 

[hesham]

From l'Aeronautique 1930 and TU 198 magazine;


here is the L.E. Elie patent for delta mid-wing aircraft with a pusher engine.

 

[Deltafan]

Very interesting plane. Thanks Hesham

 

[hesham]

Thank you my dear Deltafan.

 

[hesham]

From l'Aeronautique 1933,


the French designer Alfred Auger created some gliders during 1920s,he had a
patent for tailless aircraft,fitted with new control for flaps.

 

[hesham]

mysteries in that French George Messier's site,unknown projects;
http://www.acam.asso.fr/histo/premiers_equipements6.php

Schreck (FBA) 330

Hi,


everyday,I discover the George Messier site is right,and I think all word in it is true,someone
told me that,when I sent this post,the FBA ended its series by the designation 310,so the 330
was not logical,and I answer him now and also all one suspected in this site,that the FBA company
never stopped at designation 310,but in 1937,and in Air Ministry A.49 competition for E.D.2,or
two seat trainer flying boat,the FBA submitted the Model-350 Project,and that's evidence for
existing of Model-330.

 

[hesham]

here is the Jean Pajot light aircraft.

http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/bpt6k6568275z/f4.image

Also from Le FANA 236,here is the Pajot gliders.

 

[hesham]

Hi,


in 1928 competition for twin engined three/four seat recce torpedo bomber seaplane,
the company FBA submitted a proposal,remained a mystery to this moment,does anyone
know it ?.

 

[hesham]

Old info from Internet;


the French Astra company designed a twin engined seaplane project after WW1,does
anyone know or hear about it ?.

 

[hesham]

Hi,


a French designer called Boutiron created a seaplane project in 1920s,does anyone
hear about it ?.

 

[hesham]

Hi,


the French little known projects before WW1,the Alvaerz et de Conde,three aircraft;


1. Seaplane or flyingboat, model only.

2. An odd high-wing flyingboat with streamlined hull and pointed nose, fabricated from 2 layers of cedrat, a kind of lemon-wood, with fabric in between; the pilot was enclosed along with the engine which drove 2 pusher propellers set on the trailing edge. 4 windows provided him with a view, and small winglets provided stability on the water. The low-aspect-ratio wing was in 3 panels with large ailerons, and was supported on the struts based on special floats; it was entirely of metal construction without welding. The machine was tested around August 1913 at Bellevue on the Seine; the results are not known. (Span: 12 m; chord: 2.2 m; wing area: 26.5 sqm, Eiffel No 8 airfoil; length: 8.4 m; winglet span: 5.7 m; 60 hp watercooled engine).

3. Existed in proposal only: an all-steel 3-seater armored amphibian combat aircraft for the Navy. It featured an auxiliary 8 hp motor to power the radio, and to start the main engine.

http://flyingmachines.ru/Site2/Crafts/Craft29166.htm

 

[hesham]

From AFM 02,


here is anther unknown aircraft ?.

 

[Cy-27]

Lelièvre Monoplane 1912-13

The designer of this rather unusual aeroplane was one of the earliest French enthusiast pilots with a French Brevet number of 29. Lieutenant Eugene Lelièvre of the 5th Artillery Regiment conceived a monoplane that was built by Vendôme. A contemporary postcard records the first flight as 1 March 1913.

The pilot entered the aeroplane plane by means of a narrow side door opening. The engine was installed very low and drove the large propeller placed higher up alongside the wing via a chain (see patent drawing attached). The monoplane flew several times to Issy-les-Moulineaux in early 1913 and crashed a few months later, in the August.

Only the single example was built.

General characteristics

Engine: 50 h.p.
Wing Span: 9.5 m
Wing Area: 22 sq m

Sources:

Pioniere der Fruhen Luftfahrt by Schmitt and Schwipps (Gondrom) ISBN 3-8112-1189-7

 

[dan_inbox]

And in flight:

 

[hesham]

Hi,

I can't ID this airplane,was it a French design,from M. Levesque ?,page 44;

https://books.google.com.eg/books?id=LBTqUc-SDZ0C&printsec=frontcover&hl=ar&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false

 

[hesham]

Hi,

does anyone hear about French helicopter,called Boneaux,maybe a Project ?,I don't
sure if the spelling is right or not ?.

 

[hesham]

Hi,

from the book; Louis Blériot L' envol du XXe siècle - Blériot- Aéronautique ( SPAD - Blanchard -
Guillemin )
and in 1917 competition for multi engined BN.2 & BN.3,a two and three seat night bomber,
the tenders were;
Voisin XII,Letord 9,Bleriot 71 & 73,Farman 50,Caudron C-23 and CEP 2

What was CEP 2 ?,I search on the book; French Aircraft of the First World War,
but nothing I found.

 

[Deltafan]

Hi,

I presume it was this "Caproni built under licence Esnault Pelterie" : Caproni Esnault Pelterie 2.

http://www.traditions-air.fr/unit_en/avion/avions_ww1_01.htm

I understand that it was the name of the Caproni Ca.3 built in France (30) by Esnault Pelterie and the Société Anonyme d'Applications Industrielles du Bois (SAAIB) :

http://albindenis.free.fr/Site_escadrille/Avions_Caproni.htm

 

[hesham]

Excellent my dear Deltafan,many thanks.

 

[hesham]

Small Quiz,

what was this real French airplane (not Project) ?.

 

[hesham]

Small Quiz,

what was this real French airplane (not Project) ?.

It was Lauret L'Ailette.

 

[avion ancien]

It does appear, Hesham, that all four of those illustrations came from my post on another forum (http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/showthread.php?17-The-Ongoing-Mystery-Aircraft-Thread-Part-Deux/page452) and assuming that is where you found them, you might have had the courtesy to mention as much and give credit to the source! Oh and this aeroplane also was known as the Marais-Lauret Ailette.

 

[hesham]

OK my dear Avions,

I just don't remember the source.

 

[hesham]

Hi,

FBA-180 : single engined flying boat aircraft.

Here is a more Info about FBA.18;

http://www.avia-it.com/act/biblioteca/periodici/PDF%20Riviste/Ala%20d'Italia/L'ALA%20D'ITALIA%201925%2001.pdf

 

[hesham]

Hi,

Jean Gras designed and built a gyrocopter,all details available is here;

http://www.avia-it.com/act/biblioteca/periodici/PDF%20Riviste/Ala%20d'Italia/L'ALA%20D'ITALIA%201925%20012.pdf

 

[hesham]

From Taschenbuch der Luftflotten 1915;

here is a Colliex-Janson experimental seaplane of 1914.

 

[hesham]

Thank you my dear Toura,


and here is the Jarrion two seat light aircraft,intended to light aircraft contest
of 1936,remained a project only.


http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/bpt6k6560504f/f9.image

A clearer view;

http://www.avia-it.com/act/biblioteca/periodici/PDF%20Riviste/Ala%20d'Italia/L'ALA%20D'ITALIA%201937%2008.pdf

 

[hesham]

Hi,

the ANF-Mureaux had un-numbered Project of 1935,for twin engined airplane
with retractable landing gear.

 

[sienar]

By way of Luftwaffe-Research-Group, a photo with a few odd types

The center aircraft is the Weymann 230/231 discussed elsewhere on this forum. But the aircraft on the left and the right of the Weymann are stumping people.

Original ebay auction - http://www.ebay.de/itm/Foto-Frankreich-Beute-Flugzeuge-franzosische-Luftwaffe-und-deutsche-Maschinen-/361862694939?hash=item5440b2881b:g:U0EAAOSwux5YYCF1

 

[avion ancien]

I suppose it's a stupid question to ask whether there is any indication of where the photograph was taken.

 

[sienar]

Probably Toussus-le-Noble but not certain

 

[avion ancien]

If so - how things have changed! However if it is, it seems that the Weymann CTW-231 and the other two aeroplanes have been shoved off into some quiet, shady corner of the aerodrome - because the other known photograph of CTW-231 shows it at the entrance to one of the hangars. That photograph (q.v. http://forum.keypublishing.com/showthread.php?99333-Unknown-French-type-captured-by-the-Germans) originated from Avions Hors Serie Nº 24 'La Debacle de Mai-Juin 1940 - ce que trouverent les Allemands en traversant la France' in which it is described as having been captured by the Germans at Toussus-le-Noble along with other aircraft in various states of condition. I do not have a copy of that magazine. But maybe if someone else does, it would be worth taking a look at that to see if there are any other photographs taken at Toussus-le-Noble at the same time and whether these might assist in identifying the aeroplanes to the left and right of the CTW-231 in the photograph posted above.

 

[avion ancien]

On the subject of unidentified French aeroplanes, that depicted below (I apologise for the diminutive size of the image but it was the best I could capture) appeared, a couple of years ago, on le Bon Coin (a French online advertising site) where it was being offered for sale at only a few hundred Euros. It appears to be a Mignet formule design but not one which I recognise. Sadly before I could make enquiries of the seller, the advertisement had been taken down. Can anyone out there identify it?

P.s. I should add that when it was being advertised for sale on le Bon Coin, there was a hyperlink to a video (on, I think, youtube), which showed this aeroplane being taxied frantically around a field, but my attempts subsequently to find this have been entirely unsuccessful.

 

[cluttonfred]

From the diminutive size, prominent cabane and ample landing gear legs, and knowing the time period, my guess would be a Farman F.451 Moustique II for the aircraft obscured by the Weymann and a bathing beauty on the left.

By way of Luftwaffe-Research-Group, a photo with a few odd types

The center aircraft is the Weymann 230/231 discussed elsewhere on this forum. But the aircraft on the left and the right of the Weymann are stumping people.

Original ebay auction - http://www.ebay.de/itm/Foto-Frankreich-Beute-Flugzeuge-franzosische-Luftwaffe-und-deutsche-Maschinen-/361862694939?hash=item5440b2881b:g:U0EAAOSwux5YYCF1

 

[hesham]

Hi,

here is a Renault helicopter Project of 1912,from TU issue 122.

 

[avion ancien]

With reference to the second illustration in the foregoing post, I'm left wondering whether, rather than being a helicopter, this was a machine for performing trepanations!