Little-Known French Projects and Prototypes

hesham

CLEARANCE: Above Top Secret
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
23,486
Reaction score
435
Hi,

some little known aircraft:
Delanne DL-190 sailplane.

[see this topic for all Delanne projects and prototypes — Mod.]
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,15821.0.html
 

hesham

CLEARANCE: Above Top Secret
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
23,486
Reaction score
435
Hi,

FBA-180 : single engined flying boat aircraft.
 

Archibald

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2006
Messages
2,198
Reaction score
24
Hesham, nice website about french aircrafts here
http://www.aviafrance.com/aviafrance1.php?ID=2142&ID_CONSTRUCTEUR=202&ANNEE=0&ID_MISSION=0&MOTCLEF=
Enjoy :)
 

JC Carbonel

CLEARANCE: Confidential
Joined
Sep 7, 2006
Messages
191
Reaction score
0
for all those interested I can as well advertise my own work :

http://modelarchives.free.fr/Bestiaire/index.html this page covers many weird French designs around the two world wars and all the texts are bilingual French / English

example :


Dorand's VTOL mailplane (thirties)

Fauvel AV31 transport plane (1943)

Lecheres patent for a VTOL flying wing (1943-44)

Chappedelaine Gyroptère : a "spinner" type machine of the late twenties

JCC
 

hesham

CLEARANCE: Above Top Secret
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
23,486
Reaction score
435
Hi,

Levy :triplane patrol flying boat of 1922.

Levy-Biche LB-4: single engined reconnaissance seaplane. [see here]
 

hesham

CLEARANCE: Above Top Secret
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
23,486
Reaction score
435
Hallo dears,

some little known aircraft:


Bloch MB.170 single engined single seat racer aircraft (not related to MB.170 twin engined reconnaissance aircraft).

Mureaux ANF-150 racer aircraft.

Bechereau (SRAP) T-7: single engined sesquiplane as transport biplane.
 

hesham

CLEARANCE: Above Top Secret
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
23,486
Reaction score
435
Hi,

The little known Lucien Chauviere Gyroptere of 1927,which powered by one
230 hp Renault engine.
 

Attachments

Jemiba

CLEARANCE: Above Top Secret
Staff member
Top Contributor
Senior Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2006
Messages
7,970
Reaction score
58
Regarding to the Chauviere Gyroptere, the first look may be
misleading. It's not an autogiro, but a true compound helicopter.
 

Attachments

hesham

CLEARANCE: Above Top Secret
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
23,486
Reaction score
435
Thank you my dear Jemiba,

The W. Margoulis was designed in 1922 tilt-propeller triplane,and powered
by two 320 hp ABC Dragonfly engines,mounted between the top two wings
and remained a project.
 

Attachments

Tophe

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Joined
Feb 18, 2006
Messages
1,151
Reaction score
1
Website
cmeunier.chez-alice.fr
Sorry, there is not a single word of text about it. And the data do not mention weapons nor use. Only mysterious word that may have a meaning: "Laboratory Type" but that may mean simply "experimental", otherwise the use may be transporting measure apparatus for something scientific.
 

Stargazer2006

CLEARANCE: Above Top Secret
Staff member
Senior Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2009
Messages
13,244
Reaction score
36
Tophe said:
Sorry, there is not a single word of text about it. And the data do not mention weapons nor use. Only mysterious word that may have a meaning: "Laboratory Type" but that may mean simply "experimental", otherwise the use may be transporting measure apparatus for something scientific.
Probably an old French equivalent to "test-bed"...
 

airman

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Joined
Oct 14, 2007
Messages
1,072
Reaction score
8
Website
zeef.com
This thread is really interesting : french projects of wwii was really obscure like title of this thread ! :)
Until now naturally : with internet ! :D
 

Tophe

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Joined
Feb 18, 2006
Messages
1,151
Reaction score
1
Website
cmeunier.chez-alice.fr
In the Trait d’Union #138, this is a mystery.
After the very classical Kellner-Bechereau E60 trainer (1st flight March 1940) is another 3-view drawing of twin-pusher with a weird wing. Nothing in the text there explains what this is. The only explanation I found could be a text 3 pages before in the introduction: "Béchereau designed a glider with a weird shape, a double crescent wing for a fighter project. From this glider project, Béchereau designed a motor-glider with two 7hp engines and the first drawer wing". The date seems between 1932 and 1936.
 

Attachments

Tophe

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Joined
Feb 18, 2006
Messages
1,151
Reaction score
1
Website
cmeunier.chez-alice.fr
In the Trait d'Union #194 (Nov-Dec 2000): "in 1932, Paul Dutou designed a twin-boom pusher with Maurice Arnoux. Monoplane with low wing and a Salmson 9 cylinders 60hp. Not built."
EDIT: In the Trait d'Union #224 (Nov-Dec 2005) is this addition: "this twin-boomer was named D.T.G (unknown meaning), tested at wind-tunnel, removable wings. Length 7;5m Total weight 525kg empty 280kg speed range 75-185km/h"
 

Attachments

Tophe

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Joined
Feb 18, 2006
Messages
1,151
Reaction score
1
Website
cmeunier.chez-alice.fr
In the Trait d'Union #208 (Mar-Apr 2003): "in 1934, someone named Goudant designed a flying boat with variable area wing. Two half wings (of 6.25m x 2m) disappear inside the the thick wing. 4 engines, speed near 300km/h, not built."
 

Attachments

Tophe

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Joined
Feb 18, 2006
Messages
1,151
Reaction score
1
Website
cmeunier.chez-alice.fr
Well, I took my old T.U. collection to gather twin-boom projects but I am glad to find another pearl:
From the same Trait d'Union #207: "In 1934, Pierre Gemy designed a machine that was not intended to fly but only to learn. What was called at that time a "roller" (? "rouleur" in French). When speed is high enough, only the main wheel supports the machine, with balance controlled by the pilot. Wing of 6m x 1m. Empty weight 150kg. Engine Harley of 14 or 15hp. Not finished in 1936. Actual rolling not confirmed."
 

Attachments

Tophe

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Joined
Feb 18, 2006
Messages
1,151
Reaction score
1
Website
cmeunier.chez-alice.fr
Still in this Trait d'Union #217 is the wonderful tandem-wing Lachassagne family and also:
"Jacques Lagarde designed in 1936 with Richard a project of transoceanic airplane with 'controlled lift'. The wing featured (uneasy to translate!) 'des volets de courbure commandés par des girouettes Constantin' controlling Cz in flight. Span 62m Length 40m Total weight 105t with 15t load Power 15,600hp total Max speed 440km/h Range 8000km. The same Lagarde designed the Millet-Lagarde ML.10 twin-boomer after 1945."
 

Attachments

lark

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Feb 17, 2006
Messages
1,780
Reaction score
2
Once again ,a breathtaking contribution Tophe...
Many thanks.
 

Tophe

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Joined
Feb 18, 2006
Messages
1,151
Reaction score
1
Website
cmeunier.chez-alice.fr
(The search does not find this)
Pierre Dubs in 1937 designed a glider with "living wing" using "girouettes Constantin"
(source: Trait d'Union #194 Nov-Dec 2000)
 

Attachments

Tophe

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Joined
Feb 18, 2006
Messages
1,151
Reaction score
1
Website
cmeunier.chez-alice.fr
Tophe said:
(The search does not find this)
(source: Trait d'Union #194 Nov-Dec 2000)
As well:
A. Dujardin designed during WW2 a giant flying boat of 250t with turbojets (4 for lift and 4 for speed). Length 127m Span 106m.
 

Attachments

Tophe

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Joined
Feb 18, 2006
Messages
1,151
Reaction score
1
Website
cmeunier.chez-alice.fr
During WW2, the French engineer De Lazarieff designed a twin-engine aircraft to carry passengers or for training.
Span 13.25m Length 9.92m Height 3.95m Weight empty 1,625kg total 2,500kg Engines 2x 240hp Maximum speed 320km/h
Source: Trait d'Union #217 Sep-Oct 2004
 

Attachments

James

CLEARANCE: Restricted
Joined
Mar 4, 2011
Messages
9
Reaction score
0
Very interesting Tophe. I would love to read a bit more about that turbojet flying boat mentioned above. Would the position of the lift jets be practical?
 

Tophe

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Joined
Feb 18, 2006
Messages
1,151
Reaction score
1
Website
cmeunier.chez-alice.fr
Tophe said:
Tophe said:
(The search does not find this)
(source: Trait d'Union #194 Nov-Dec 2000)
As well:
A. Dujardin designed during WW2 a giant flying boat of 250t with turbojets (4 for lift and 4 for speed). Length 127m Span 106m.
I add the engines drawings. And I gave one line summary from 19 lines detail. I could translate more, but it is very technical, and I lack English vocabulary. I try.
"For speed, blades had 4.5m diameter and hubs: 3m. Blades were driven by a turbo motor located in the hub and working like a steam turbine but with air at pressure 12kg and 500°C. This air is provided by an engine room located in the hull. These propellers are adjustable around the vertival axis.
In the wings depth, were lift propellers of 10m diameter for take off, so it was able to take off from land. All this mechanical engine parts were weighing 60t, with a power of 140,000hp! Range 10,000km in 24 hours.
A reduced size model had been tested in 1937, as a 2.66m span model that was an air tubine with wings and a boom holding a tail. These tests were performed at Issy les Moulineaux in the Etablissements d'Etudes Techniques du Ministère de l'Air. The full-size air-jet project was not built."
 

Attachments

hesham

CLEARANCE: Above Top Secret
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
23,486
Reaction score
435
Hi,

my dear Maveric spoke before about some French projects from WW1,and I
found an info for two of them,first,the Bassan-Gue BN.4,it was triplane
bomber project powered by three 450 hp Renault engines,and the second,
the Bille SACANA triplane bomber project,which was studied in three versions,
projects are provided with six (400 hp Lorraine or 400 hp Liberty) engines,and
the third one was a heavy bomber equipped by 700 hp SANA engines.
 

hesham

CLEARANCE: Above Top Secret
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
23,486
Reaction score
435
What was those projects from Couse Pratique d-Aviation?.


http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=fr&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=ar&ie=UTF-8&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fpages14-18.mesdiscussions.net%2Fpages1418%2Faviation-1914-1918%2Fidentification-trimoteur-bifuselage-sujet_913_1.htm
 

Attachments

c460

CLEARANCE: Secret
Joined
Oct 20, 2009
Messages
395
Reaction score
2
hesham said:
What was those projects from Couse Pratique d-Aviation?.
Most probably these are not actual projects, but sketches illustrating various engine placements on 3 and 4-engine aircraft.

The book title means "Practical Aviation Course". The text on 3 and 4-engine aircraft reads: "Three-engine aircraft do not have this defect to the same degree ; the engines are usually distributed as two engines mounted on the side and one mounted on the aircraft axis. Four-engine aircraft are still rare. The most frequent type has the engines mounted by pairs on the same axis, one with the propeller at the front and the other with the propeller at the rear."
 

hesham

CLEARANCE: Above Top Secret
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
23,486
Reaction score
435
Hi,


FBA.12 was a two seat trainer flying boat,but I don't know if it was
built or not.
 

hesham

CLEARANCE: Above Top Secret
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
23,486
Reaction score
435
Hi,


the Astra-Nieuport company designed a large twin boom biplane with a span
of 25.5m,propellers were mounted at the nose of each boom,driven either by
a single central engine or or one in each boom,unclear if that aircraft was
still a project or never completed,that was in 1915/1916,who know more ?.
 

hesham

CLEARANCE: Above Top Secret
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
23,486
Reaction score
435
hesham said:
Hi,


the Astra-Nieuport company designed a large twin boom biplane with a span
of 25.5m,propellers were mounted at the nose of each boom,driven either by
a single central engine or or one in each boom,unclear if that aircraft was
still a project or never completed,that was in 1915/1916,who know more ?.

A small mistake,


the company was Astra and not Astra-Nieuport.
 

hesham

CLEARANCE: Above Top Secret
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
23,486
Reaction score
435
hesham said:
hesham said:
Hi,


the Astra-Nieuport company designed a large twin boom biplane with a span
of 25.5m,propellers were mounted at the nose of each boom,driven either by
a single central engine or or one in each boom,unclear if that aircraft was
still a project or never completed,that was in 1915/1916,who know more ?.

A small mistake,


the company was Astra and not Astra-Nieuport.

And here is the Astra twin boom aircraft
 

Attachments

avion ancien

The accidental peasant!
Joined
Mar 6, 2013
Messages
206
Reaction score
3
The Joubert J 3, which bears more than a passing resemblance to the Mignet HM.8 but, equally, differs in significant respects. Maybe its design was influenced by the HM.8. Maybe it was constructed using HM.8 components. Maybe it was converted from an HM.8. So far I've found next to no information about it. Does anyone have any?
 

Attachments

avion ancien

The accidental peasant!
Joined
Mar 6, 2013
Messages
206
Reaction score
3
With apologies for the picture quality - they are scans of contemporary newspaper photographs - here are two of the 50 CV Peitz Avionette. Does anyone have any better images of or information about this obscure little French aeroplane?
 

Attachments

avion ancien

The accidental peasant!
Joined
Mar 6, 2013
Messages
206
Reaction score
3
..........and now two equally poor images of the Volland V.10, a French two seat training biplane of the 1930s. However the stagger of the wings is such that if not for the struts, maybe it could be described as a tandem mainplane low/parasol wing monoplane! I think that I have slightly better versions of these photographs somewhere, but I can't find them at present. If I do and I can find them, I'll post them subsequently.
 

Attachments

avion ancien

The accidental peasant!
Joined
Mar 6, 2013
Messages
206
Reaction score
3
......and finally - for the present - the Botali-Mandelli biplane. I have a little information about this diminutive single seater, including the name of the gentlemen standing proudly before it. I think that he is either the eponymous M. Botali or M. Mandelli, its designer and pilot. I'll try to find that information and post it. But as before, if anyone has better pictures or more information about this aeroplane, I'll be most interested.
 

Attachments

hesham

CLEARANCE: Above Top Secret
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
23,486
Reaction score
435
Great find Avion,


and here is the only info from Trait d'Union.
 

Attachments

hesham

CLEARANCE: Above Top Secret
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
23,486
Reaction score
435
avion ancien said:
......and finally - for the present - the Botali-Mandelli biplane. I have a little information about this diminutive single seater, including the name of the gentlemen standing proudly before it. I think that he is either the eponymous M. Botali or M. Mandelli, its designer and pilot. I'll try to find that information and post it. But as before, if anyone has better pictures or more information about this aeroplane, I'll be most interested.

Hi Avion,


for Botali-Mandelli biplane,there is a more info about it in Trait d'Union issue 224,they also
designed aircraft called PAMA and some light aircraft.
 
Top