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German WW1 Fighters and Recce Aircraft Prototypes and Projects

Tuizentfloot

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My dear hesham, again some misunderstandings…

A first remark, the planes designed by Eduard Zaparka were not German, but Austro-Hungarian.

And a second remark, the picture posted by Maveric is indeed a fighter designed by Zaparka, but not the 1918 parasol fighter, which was never completed. And unfortunately, I never saw pictures or drawings of this fighter.

At the beginning of WWI Eduard Zaparka worked for Österreichische Flugzeugfabrik AG (Öffag) where he was co-designer of the 1915 Öffag 50.01.

As an Oberleutnant he served at the Fliegeretappenpark (Flep) 3 at Trient (11. Armeekommando). It was here that the biplane fighter (the posting by Maveric) was built in 1917, on his own initiative.

Late 1917 he joined the Phönix-Flugzeugwerke AG, where he was chief designer at the end of the war. His Phönix C-prototypes 20.19 and 20.21 had the same wing structure he had developed for his biplane fighter.

Eduard Zaparka was also known for the development of a synchronisation system for Hiero engines.

After the war he became manager of the Avis Flugzeug- und Autowerke GmbH in Vienna.
 

hesham

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Many great thanks to you my dear Tuizentfloot,

and I understand that,he had own design,a fighter of 1917,but about the fighter of 1918,
it was belonged to Phönix-Flugzeugwerke AG,is that right or it was also own to him and not
with this company ?.
 

Tuizentfloot

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The 1917 biplane fighter of his design was built by the military staff of the Flep 3, without any official specification and without any intervention of the industry. So this "private venture" is known as his own type. It had no designation, and was simply known as Zaparka Doppeldecker.

On the other hand, the 1918 parasol fighter was one of the Phönix types he designed for this company in 1918 (as he had joined Phönix in late 1917). Without a known designation in this case.
 

hesham

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Thank you my dear Tuizentfloot.
 

hesham

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hesham said:
I think the Naglo D.I was developed or led to D.II,please see;
That was wrong,as I know the Naglo D.I was a biplane fighter and not quadruplane.
 

hesham

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Hi,

what was the different between Lübeck-Travemünde F series and D.F.W. Lübeck F series,
are they the same or not ?.
 

Tuizentfloot

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Flugzeugwerft Lübeck-Travemünde GmbH at Travemünde-Priwall on the Baltic coast was founded in June 1914 by the Leipzig-Lindenthal based Deutsche Flugzeugwerke DFW specially for the construction of naval aircraft.
 

hesham

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Tuizentfloot said:
Flugzeugwerft Lübeck-Travemünde GmbH at Travemünde-Priwall on the Baltic coast was founded in June 1914 by the Leipzig-Lindenthal based Deutsche Flugzeugwerke DFW specially for the construction of naval aircraft.
Thank you my dear Tuizentfloot,

and I understand that,they were the same,right,but so weird,the DFW Lübeck F.1 was in class
"C",and appeared in 1916,although the Lübeck-Travemünde F.1 was in class "B",and appeared
in 1915 ?.
 

Tuizentfloot

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My dear hesham, I don't know the source of this so-called "DFW Lübeck F.1", but I have more than doubts, and I'm afraid

1. that during WW I DFW didn't build naval aircraft in the Leipzig factory (the last - and only - naval aircraft built there was the 1914 biplane seaplane)

2. that during WW I all naval aircraft construction by DFW took place in its subsidiary Lübeck-Travemünde

3. the F.1 was an unarmed two-seater reconnaissance floatplane, and so belonged to the B-class.
 

hesham

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My dear Tuizentfloot,

here is a two pages for Germany aircraft of WWI,shows the different between them,and
mentioned DFW Lübeck,and the F.1 here was in "C" class and their in "B" class.
 

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hesham

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My dear Tuizentfloot,

the DF = Deutsche Flugzeuge 1914-1918,and the BL = Typenhandbuch der deutschen Luftfahrttechnik
 

Tuizentfloot

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I searched both.

In Deutsche Flugzeuge 1914-1918 p. 77 there is a photograph with the caption "Bild 47: DFW Lübeck, F 1, Seeaufklärer, 1916". It is a well-known photograph of the sole Lübeck-Travemünde F.1.

And on p. 78 there are two photographs of the so-called DFW Lübeck F 2. Both are also well-known photographs of the Lübeck-Travemünde F.2. One is Marine-Nr. 677, the prototype of the F.2.

The Typenhandbuch doesn't mention a "DFW Lübeck"...

It must be clear. Flugzeugwerft Lübeck-Travemünde was a subsidiary of the Deutsche Flugzeugwerke to build naval aircraft. And there was no separate series of naval aircraft built by the parent company (and with the same designations!).
 

hesham

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Hi,

Germania company had Eindecker (monoplane),intended for a light military and recce
airplane,in class "A",it was powered by one Argus engine,who can provide us more
Info about it ?.
 

Tuizentfloot

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First of all the name Germania-Flugzeugwerke appeared only in December 1915. Before (and since its creation in 1912) the name of the firm was Rahtjens & Co.

A monoplane of the A category was delivered to the military in 1914. It had an rounded woorden fuselage and zanonia (Taube) wings.

Earlier, in 1912-13 a "real" Taube with Argus had been built.
 

hesham

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Amazing Info my dear Tuizentfloot,thanks.
 

hesham

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Tuizentfloot said:
For the record, the 1920s German Phönix-Flugzeugbau (and the Austrian Österreichische Phoenix-Flugzeugwerft GmbH) built only low powered light sport aircraft and had no relation to the WWI Phönix-Flugzeugwerke, that ceased all activities at the end of WWI.

I give the complete list of the aircraft built by these very small companies.

Phönix-Flugzeugbau in Düsseldorf-Lauhausen, Germany.

LF4: 1927 low wing light sport plane, 1 built and sold (without engine) to an American customer

L2 Meteor: 1928 light sport biplane evolved from the L1 earlier built by Meteor-Flugzeugbau, 1 built with ABC Scorpion, 35 hp

L2a: 1 built with Salmson AD9, 40 hp

L2b: with Salmson AD9 for Austrian construction

L2c: with Siemens Sh13 for Austrian construction

L2d: 1 built with Salmson AD9

L2e: 1 built with Hirth HM60

L2g: with Siemens Sh14 for Austrian construction

Österreichische Phoenix-Flugzeugwerft GmbH in Wöllersdorf, Austria.

Offered the construction of the following German L2 variants (some with another engine than the German original):
- L2b with Salmson AD9
- L2c with Siemens Sh13
- L2d with Armstrong-Gennet, 80/88 hp
- L2e with Walter NZ-70
- L2g with Siemens Sh14
My dear Tuizentfloot,

we forget L1 Meteor;

http://www.histaviation.com/Phoenix_Meteor_L1.html
 

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Tuizentfloot

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This is the L1 Meteor, designed and built by Meteor-Flugzeugwerke, that in 1927 went into the Phönix-Flugzeugbau. The Phönix L2 Meteor (and variants) was derived from it.

It is possible that the L1 Meteor was known as a Phönix type after the takeover of Meteor-Flugzeugwerke, but I don't know since the 1920s-30s are not my favourite period…
 

hesham

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For BFW,

if we know that the CL.I was called Type-17,what was BFW Type-1 to Type-16 ?.
 

Tuizentfloot

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The Bayerische Flugzeug-Werke AG (BFW) were created by Albatros and MAN in February 1916 as a successor to the almost defunct Otto-Werke. It disappeared at the end of WWI.

There was no relation with the later Bayerische Flugzeugwerke of Messerschmitt fame.

The first BFW type to appear was the 1917 CL.I. I wonder if "Type 17" didn't simply mean "Type 1917".

That there were 16 unbuilt projects in the year before would be almost impossible for such a small company with as its main job aircraft maintenance and reparation, and also license building.

For the sake of completeness the BFW types:

CL.I - 1 x Daimler-Mercedes D.III, at least one built in 1917

CL.II - 1 x MAN Mana II, one built in 1918, eveolved from CL.I

CL.III - 1 x Benz Bz.IV, one built in 1918, evolved from CL.I

CL.IV - unbuilt project

N.I - triplane night bomber with Daimler-Mercedes D.IVa, one built in 1918

Unnamed experimental monoplane - with forward swept wings, one built in 1918
 

hesham

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Thank you my dear Tuizentfloot,

but I know that,the company had a light monoplane in 1912,was that right ?.
 

Tuizentfloot

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Indeed, my dear hesham, but not the same company...

Once again a confusion between homonymous (or nearly homonymous) companies.

There were:

1. A company named Bayerische Motoren- und Flugzeugwerke (BMFW), that existed in Nürnberg before WWI, and that was originally called Nürnberger Motoren- und Maschinenfabrik. It built a number of aero engines, and four monoplanes and a single biplane:

Monoplane 1910-11 - steel tube construction with BMFW 3-cyl. engine, 30 hp.

Monoplane Noris 1911 - with the same engine.

Militäreindecker (Stahleindecker) 1912 - two seater in steel tube construction with BMFW Sylphe, 70 hp.

Monoplane 1913 - Morane copy with the same Sylphe engine.

Biplane 1913 - Otto copy with the samen Sylphe engine.

The engines and the first three monoplanes were designed by Philipp Enders. The Morane and Otto copies by Hans Zahn.

2. The Bayerische Flugzeug-Werke AG (BFW), created in 1916. Ended all aviation activities at the end of WWI (but in a way continued to live in the well known BMW).

3. The Bayerische Flugzeugwerke AG (BFW), evolved in 1926 from the Udet-Flugzeugbau GmbH and the Messerschmitt-Fluzeugbau GmbH, and in 1938 renamed Messerschmitt Flugzeugwerke AG.
 

hesham

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Excellent respond as usual my dear Tuizentfloot,

and many thanks.
 

hesham

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Old Info on Internet,

maybe right or wrong,the Fokker D.VI was also called M.23 ?.
 

Tuizentfloot

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M-23 and M-24 have been mentioned for a time as hypothetical designations. It is now clear that it is incorrect and impossible.

The early Fokker designations have always been mysterious and confused, mostly due to Anthony Fokker himself after WWI.

The two most recent serious works on early Fokkers are
- P.M Grosz & V. Koos, Fokker Flugzeugwerke in Deutschland 1912-1921 (2004)
- Th. Wesselink, Nederlandse Vliegtuigen - Deel 1 - Nederlandse vliegtuigbouwers in het buitenland (2014)
Wesselink gives credit to Grosz and Koos, and gives some additional information from research since 2004. Neither mentions even the M-23.

Till the end of 1916 Fokker used factory designations in the M-series, from then till July 1917 in the D-series (attention: confusion with Idflieg D-designations!...), and afterwards in the V-series.

For the above mentioned authors the 1916 M-22 was the last in this series.

The predecessors and prototypes of the D.VI appeared in the second half of 1917, and so were rightfully in the V-series.

Volker Koos in his his earlier Die Fokker-Flugzeugwerke in Schwerin (1993) still mentions the M-23 and M-24, albeit with reservations:
M-23 Soll die Werksbezeichnung der Fokker D.VI gewesen sein.
M-24 Eventuell Werksbezeichnung der Fokker Dr.I

Ten years later it was clear: no M-23 nor M-24 in the meaning of D.VI or Dr.I

But there are still a lot of Fokker mysteries…
 

hesham

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Thank you for your explanation my dear Tuizentfloot.
 

hesham

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Hi,

was there any Infos about LFG D.X,D.XI & D.XII ?.
 

Tuizentfloot

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The only information I found is that the D.X, D.XI and D.XII were projects of single seat fighters (see Lange's Typenhandbuch, also Nowarra). Unfortunately no details...
 

hesham

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Many thanks my dear Tuizentfloot.
 

hesham

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Hi,

I hope to know all LVG D airplanes,which had numbered only,we know D.1,D.3,D.4,D.5,
D.6,D.9,D.10,D.11,D.12,D.13,D.14 & D.15,the missing are D.2,D.7 & D.8.

The other series I know most of it which began with D.I and ended by D.VI.
 

Tuizentfloot

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D.2 is mentioned by Lange (p. 75) as a replica of the Albatros-Farman biplane "wit a rotary engine". No other details.

As for D.7 and D.8 ... ??
 

hesham

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Many thanks my dear Tuizentfloot.
 

hesham

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My dear Tuizentfloot,

was there any more aircraft designed by Alter,than A.1 ?.
 

Maveric

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There are no other built aircraft by Alter.
Source: Bruno Lange - Typenhandbuch der Deutschen Luftfahrt
 

hesham

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Maveric said:
There are no other built aircraft by Alter.
Source: Bruno Lange - Typenhandbuch der Deutschen Luftfahrt
Thanks.
 

hesham

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Tuizentfloot said:
Thank you my dear Tuizentfloot,

and as I know the DFW C.IV had a three different variants.
 

Maveric

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DFW F.37 was also named C.IV
there are also F.37/II and F.37/III
F.37/III was a research aircraft for altitude record.
 

Tuizentfloot

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Concerning the Alter A.1, the Hof-Möbelfabrik Ludwig Alter was a big furniture factory from Darmstadt, known for its luxurious products and royal customers. At the beginning of the war the production was changed to wooden military equipment, installations for hospital trains, etc. From 1915 it built also mobile aircraft sheds. Early 1917 began aircraft repair and installation of radio equipment in mostly Albatros en DFW C-types. The factory was known for its excellent workmanship.

The A.1 was the sole own aircraft type from the Alter factory. And its Goebel engine came also from Darmstadt.
 
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