• Hi Guest! Forum rules have been updated. All users please read here.

German WW1 Fighters and Recce Aircraft Prototypes and Projects

hesham

CLEARANCE: Above Top Secret
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
26,092
Reaction score
3,004
My dear Tuizenfloot,


as I know this aircraft was mentioned in Die deutschen Militärflugzeuge 1910-1918.
 

Tuizentfloot

CLEARANCE: Secret
Joined
May 9, 2010
Messages
240
Reaction score
49
Sorry, hesham, nothing found in Die deutschen Militärflugzeuge 1910-1918 (only the 5D 1 is mentionned)..
 

hesham

CLEARANCE: Above Top Secret
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
26,092
Reaction score
3,004
OK my dear Tuizenfloot,


I will check from my source.
 

hesham

CLEARANCE: Above Top Secret
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
26,092
Reaction score
3,004
Hi,


the LVG D.13 was a single seat biplane fighter powered by one Mercedes D IV engine and the LVG
D.14 was also a single seat biplane fighter,powered by one Mercedes D IVa engine,I don't know
if they were a projects or not ?.
 

hesham

CLEARANCE: Above Top Secret
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
26,092
Reaction score
3,004
Thank you my dear Tuizentfloot.
 

hesham

CLEARANCE: Above Top Secret
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
26,092
Reaction score
3,004
Hi,


the Naglo D.I was a single seat quadruplane fighter (1161/18),actually built.
 

Tuizentfloot

CLEARANCE: Secret
Joined
May 9, 2010
Messages
240
Reaction score
49
Based on different sources my conclusion is that
- there was only one Naglo type, the single well-known D II quadruplane
- both the serials D1161/18 and D1165/18 are given for this plane (the 1100 serials are obscure)
So I think "Naglo D I" is a misprint for D II.
 

hesham

CLEARANCE: Above Top Secret
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
26,092
Reaction score
3,004
My dear Tuizentfloot,


I think the Naglo D.I was developed or led to D.II,please see;


http://www.theaerodrome.com/forum/aircraft/47153-naglo-aircraft.html


It is special that Naglo was allowed to build this quadruplane. According to information provided by Peter M. Grosz the quadruplane was the Naglo D.I [1161/18], this machine was never entered in a Fighter Competition at Adlershof, but ....................
the Naglo D.II [1165/18] appeared but did not compete in the Adlershof Second Fighter Competition during May-June 1918. Contrary to the D.I quadruplane the D.II was a more conventional biplane, which probably made good use of the fuselage and the rudder of the D.I. The fuselage was 'hung' between the wings. Ein-steilig with a big I-like strut. No picture has been found of this machine till now
 

Tuizentfloot

CLEARANCE: Secret
Joined
May 9, 2010
Messages
240
Reaction score
49
Thank you, my dear Hesham. I didn't know that.
You are never too young to learn :)
 

Tuizentfloot

CLEARANCE: Secret
Joined
May 9, 2010
Messages
240
Reaction score
49
In the meantime I found this drawing of a Naglo biplane, apparently the D II biplane.
See https://www.facebook.com/pages/Naglo-Bootswerft-Aircraft/222598187820258
 

Attachments

hesham

CLEARANCE: Above Top Secret
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
26,092
Reaction score
3,004
Great find my dear Tuizentfloot.
 

hesham

CLEARANCE: Above Top Secret
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
26,092
Reaction score
3,004
Hi,


the Rex company designed a single seat float biplane in 1917,powered by one Benz Bz III
engine,but I don't know if it was a fighter or recce aircraft.
 

Tuizentfloot

CLEARANCE: Secret
Joined
May 9, 2010
Messages
240
Reaction score
49
Another puzzle, Hesham.
The sole reference I found about a Rex single seat seaplane of 1917 with Benz Bz III is in Lange's Typenhandbuch.
But ... it is our well-known Ursinus floatplane nr. 782...
Here we go again...
Apparently nobody knows for sure where it was built. Rex? LTG? Gotha?
I join a scan from Lange pp. 54-55 concerning this "Rex Seejagdeinsitzer". Sorry for the bad quality.
 

Attachments

hesham

CLEARANCE: Above Top Secret
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
26,092
Reaction score
3,004
Many thanks to you my dear Tuizentfloot.
 

Tuizentfloot

CLEARANCE: Secret
Joined
May 9, 2010
Messages
240
Reaction score
49
As far as I know one single Schwade Dr I was built. This is al I know about this type and I never saw an illustration of it. In Jack Herris' recent (2013) "Germany's Triplane Craze" it isn't even mentionned...
 

hesham

CLEARANCE: Above Top Secret
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
26,092
Reaction score
3,004
Thank you my dear Tuizentfloot.
 

hesham

CLEARANCE: Above Top Secret
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
26,092
Reaction score
3,004
Hi,


the Pfalz company had two D aircraft,they are not related to D series (D.I up to D.XV),the first
was D Experimental as a single seat biplane fighter powered by one Mercedes D IIIa engine
and D Type was also single seat biplane fighter,powered by one Mercedes D I engine.
 

Tuizentfloot

CLEARANCE: Secret
Joined
May 9, 2010
Messages
240
Reaction score
49
An attempt to identify both types:
  • D Experimental with D IIIa: the type variously described as "Pfalz Experimental D Type" by Gray/Thetford, or "Pfalz D IIIa with SPAD-like wing configuration" by Herris. One of a number of D III modifications.
    D Type with D I: the first Pfalz biplane fighter D 4. Simply called "Pfalz D Type" by Gray/Thetford.
 

hesham

CLEARANCE: Above Top Secret
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
26,092
Reaction score
3,004
Thank you my dear Tuizentfloot.
 

hesham

CLEARANCE: Above Top Secret
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
26,092
Reaction score
3,004
Hi,


the Zeppelin Lindau C.IV was a recce aircraft,but no more info is known about it.
 

Tuizentfloot

CLEARANCE: Secret
Joined
May 9, 2010
Messages
240
Reaction score
49
What Lange has to say about the C IV:
"Experimental. Bigger C II with 12,72 m span".
That's all, and that's all I know...
 

hesham

CLEARANCE: Above Top Secret
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
26,092
Reaction score
3,004
Many thanks to you my dear Tuizentfloot.
 

hesham

CLEARANCE: Above Top Secret
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
26,092
Reaction score
3,004
Hi,


the Hansa Brandenburg KDD was a float biplane,powered by one Austro Daimler
engine.
 

Tuizentfloot

CLEARANCE: Secret
Joined
May 9, 2010
Messages
240
Reaction score
49
Correction, dear hesham, the Brandenburg KDD was not a floatplane. It was a 1916 two seater development of the single seat KD. The single protype had the Austrian number 60.56.

Brandenburg built a sigele seat floatplane development of the KD: the KDW of 1916.

A photograph of the KDD (sorry for the bad quality). Source: Keimel, Luftfahrzeugbau in Österreich (2003).
 

Attachments

richard

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Joined
May 1, 2006
Messages
571
Reaction score
31
Bonjour


Your picture shows the Hansa-Brandenburg C II 66.51


Here , the HB.KDD 60.56 ( from Karl R.Pawlas "Deutsche Flugzeuge 1914-1918 , Luftfahrt Dokumente LD 20" )
 

Attachments

hesham

CLEARANCE: Above Top Secret
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
26,092
Reaction score
3,004
Excellent my dears Tuizentfloot and Richard,


also Hansa Brandenburg KD/S and KD/V were a biplanes,powered by one Mercedes D III engine
for each type,but no more details are known.
 

richard

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Joined
May 1, 2006
Messages
571
Reaction score
31
From the same source , the two HB.KD ( my source don't use the Lange's KD.V & KD.S )


The german (?) one (KD.V ?)

The austrian (?) one (KD.S ?)
 

Attachments

hesham

CLEARANCE: Above Top Secret
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
26,092
Reaction score
3,004
Many thanks to you my dear Richard.
 

Tuizentfloot

CLEARANCE: Secret
Joined
May 9, 2010
Messages
240
Reaction score
49
Indeed, richard, the photograph I sent this morning was the C II 66.51. It was a mistake: I scanned the wrong photograph from the same page 291 of Keimel's Luftfahrtzeugbau. It was probably too early in the morning .... :)

Here is the real 60.56 from the same page of the same source. And in the same bad quality. I also found your two photographs in Pawlas, p. 152.

Concerning the KD sources differ concerning the engine. Lange (Typenhandbuch, p. 68) says both KD/V and KD/S had a Mercedes D III, 160 hp.

Personally, I tend for the version of Grosz, Haddow, Schiemer in Austro-Hungarian Army Aircraft of World War One (1993), p. 418:

The first example of the KD (called KD/V by Lange and others) had a Mercedes D III and was a company-sponsored prototype, not specifically for the Austrian market.

The second example (KD/S) was built on Austrian demand and had an Austro-Daimler 160 hp. In the same time Austria issued a letter of intent for 50 KD (D I).
 

Attachments

hesham

CLEARANCE: Above Top Secret
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
26,092
Reaction score
3,004
Hi,


the Hansa-Brandenburg DD was a biplane powered by one Mercedes D III engine,but
I don't know if it was a fighter or recce aircraft ?.
 

Tuizentfloot

CLEARANCE: Secret
Joined
May 9, 2010
Messages
240
Reaction score
49
It was a recce aircraft, evolved from the LDD. Span 13,12 m; length 8,20 m, gross weight 1215 kg; max. speed 145 km/h.
 

hesham

CLEARANCE: Above Top Secret
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
26,092
Reaction score
3,004
Thank you my dears Richard and Tuizentfloot,


and it is "DD" aircraft.
 

Tuizentfloot

CLEARANCE: Secret
Joined
May 9, 2010
Messages
240
Reaction score
49
"Genealogy" of the Hansa Brandenburg DD:

D with Benz Bz II => FD with Argus => LDD with Mercedes D I => DD with Daimler D III

The D had a length of 8,45 m. The three others 8,20 m.
All four had a span of 13,12 m.
 

Tuizentfloot

CLEARANCE: Secret
Joined
May 9, 2010
Messages
240
Reaction score
49
Addition:

All four were recce aircraft.

And Daimler D III is naturally Daimler (Mercedes) D III. And so is Mercedes D I.
 

hesham

CLEARANCE: Above Top Secret
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
26,092
Reaction score
3,004
Many thanks to you my dear Tuizentfloot,


also Hansa-Brandenburg AE was a biplane of 1915,powered by one Benz Bz III engine.
 

Tuizentfloot

CLEARANCE: Secret
Joined
May 9, 2010
Messages
240
Reaction score
49
The type AE was an early Hansa-Brandenburg seaplane in a line related to the type W.

"Genealogy":

W (Benz Bz III, als with Daimler-Mercedes) and variants: W/S (Argus As II) and W/SS trainer (Maybach)

=> AE (Benz Bz III)

=> NW (Daimler-Mercedes D III) and variant NW/4 (Benz Bz III)

All these seaplanes were three bay biplanes.

A two bay sea-biplane based on the NW was the LW with Daimler-Mercedes D III
 

hesham

CLEARANCE: Above Top Secret
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
26,092
Reaction score
3,004
Many thanks to you my dear Tuizentfloot.
 
Top