Dassault Mirage III V/STOL Derivatives (Balzac, IIIV)

Deltafan

Like the bomb under the Mirage IV?
 
uk 75 said:
Thank you Deltafan
I wonder if having a nuclear store on a centre pylon surrounded by jet downthrust would have worked.
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Good point here. not exactly reassuring ! But nukes were design to be extremely safe. The three B-52 losses (Greensborough, Thulé and Palomares) lost H-bombs but none detonated.
More worrying is the unherent unstability of VSTOL aircraft. Strapping a nuke to that is a little unsetting when you think about it...
 
You Tube videos on Balzac and III V

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HjQ2IuTfsIM&list=PLcTRnIT1yAeaqW_A0EtzZk_vyq8R9YwMF&index=4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvv6PZtDaLg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZ_gp33k80s
 
uk 75 said:
Thank you Deltafan
I wonder if having a nuclear store on a centre pylon surrounded by jet downthrust would have worked.
Click to expand...

This photo show underside of Mirage IIIV seen from plane back
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d8/Mirage_III_V_Le_Bourget_FRA_002.JPG

the under side is protected by the doors of lift engine.
and circulating air during take off or flight would cool the nuke at center pylon
although the runway must clean really clean to prevent that something hitting the nuke during take off or landing in VTOL mode.
 
The Mirage III-V 01 as exposed at le Bourget has no lift engines left, just empty holes. It is easy to stand up there and look through the fuselage (I did it exactly three years ago - time is flying fast !)
 
Hi!
alchetron.com

Dassault Mirage IIIV - Alchetron, The Free Social Encyclopedia

The Dassault Mirage IIIV, also spelled Mirage III V, was a French vertical takeoff and landing (VTOL) prototype fighter aircraft of the mid1960s. The Mirage IIIV model followed the Dassault Mirage III and featured eight small vertical lift jets straddling the main engine. The design was in respons
alchetron.com alchetron.com
www.airliners.net

Aviation Photo #1751134: Dassault Mirage IIIV - France - Air Force

The Mirage IIIV (three Victor) VTOL fighter, showing the dorsal intakes of its eight RB.162 lift engines - Photo taken at Paris - Le Bourget (LBG / LFPB) in France on May 22, 2010.
www.airliners.net www.airliners.net
abpic.co.uk

Aviation photographs of Dassault Mirage IIIV :

Aviation photographs categorised as Dassault Mirage IIIV
abpic.co.uk abpic.co.uk
Large size picture here.
 

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I re visit this thread as I am thinking of getting a model made of the twoseater production version carrying the AN52 weapon. But apart from Jemibas drawing I have found no info.
I know there is a French book which may have some material but it is difficult to obtain and I doubt whether it has a better drawing than Jemibas
 
uk 75 said:
I re visit this thread as I am thinking of getting a model made of the twoseater production version carrying the AN52 weapon. But apart from Jemibas drawing I have found no info.
I know there is a French book which may have some material but it is difficult to obtain and I doubt whether it has a better drawing than Jemibas
Click to expand...

Buy this book (if you can find one)

Book.JPG

Terry (Caravellarella)
 
Terry
The books look very good. But do they contain drawings or art about proposed production vstol Mirages?
 
Terry
I managed to find both books on Amazon at a hideous price, but I love this period and the aircraft, so I have treated myself to them.
Thanks for the tips.
 
Terry
The big Prototypes book arrived this morning. It is excellent, thank you for the suggestion. I ordered the first thinner book as well, though there may be some duplication.
Some very interesting stuff on the French designs for the AFVG project.
I so enjoyed the beautiful lines of the Dassaults that I decided to order the nuclear volume as well.
Mervi beaucoup
Ralph UK 75
 

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Jemiba said:
Just a trick, I know, but there was a 2-seat version of the Mirage IIIV planned, which
would have been built as number 3 and 4 and was even proposed to the USAF
(from http://www.vstol.org/FrenchVSTOLjets.pdf)
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Despite or because of its utter impracticality I love the Mirage VSTOL. At one stage France wanted 150 to replace the US supplied F100 Super Sabre in the tactical nuclear strike role.
The Jaguar and Mirage III carried the AN52 bomb equivalent to the WE177 on Tornados. Unlike the UK, France went on to put ASMP missiles Mirage 2000N and Super Etendards.
How cool the Mirage IIIV would have looked or its swing wing G successor
 
At the beginning of this thread Jemiba posted his idea of what a two seater production version of the IIIV might have looke like. I attach it here for ease of reference as it is the only image I know of that shows this version.
Although France had hoped to use 150 to replace the F100 Super Sabre in the tactical nuclear strike role, but with French instead of US weapons, it had to use the Mirage IIIE and Jaguar instead. Later on the Mirage 2000N with its ASMP missile made France the only European air force with such a capability.
 

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uk 75 said:
France had hoped to use 150 to replace the F100 Super Sabre in the tactical nuclear strike role, but ... it had to use the Mirage IIIE and Jaguar instead.
Click to expand...
Well, bombing the end of your own runway isn't so useful, especially with nukes.
 
"une usine a gaz" ( a gas plant) - that's the french slang for "a Rube Goldberg contraption".
I think it was Jean Marie Saget who told Le Fana "imagine: 8 lift engines plus 1 main turbofan plus one APU = 10 jet engines. We had difficulties making all of them working together properly..."
 
I often think they could have cut the number of lift jets with time. Balzac V had 8*RB.108, III-V had 8*RB.162 but the RB.189 / Allison XJ.99 had great potential. Perhaps they could have put only six or even four of them ? can only help, even if the III-V probably remains hopeless... and later, the Convair 200 had a F401 with an exhaust not unlike the F-35. Boom, there go the rear lift jets. Hmmm...
 
The tactical nuke was the AN-52, and it was hanged below Mirage IIIEs and Jaguars, it was also tested live at Moruroa by both planes in 1973 and 1974 (from memory). It was one of the three live nuke air drops ever done by France, with Tamouré in 1966. Everything else was ballon, ground, barges, or underground.

Hanging an AN-52 under a Mirage III-V would have bit... peculiar. With 8*RB.162 lift jets around it throwing heat and FOD on it during takeoffs.... you'd better carefully check the nuke reliability before opening the throttles. Imagine if the nuke goes a little too hot and KABOOM - there go the Mirage, the pilot, and the air base along them, Hiroshima style. Ooops !
 
Oh I know, it was planned for that. For Mark 7 or for AN-52, both tactical nukes. Just saying that hanging a nuke on that hot and unstable thing... yikes !
 
Ironically the Luftwaffe had the best answer for its light fighter bomber squadrons which initially with Fiat G91 and later with Alpha Jets could use roads in and around the airbases supported by the Unimog truck
 
Considering the software in use, that is a stunning piece. Very nicely done, Sir.
 
Really, your Mirage IIIV is beautiful. The views with its armament show it in a very unusual and interesting perspective. :)
 
Brilliant, nothing short of brilliant......
 
The AN52 nuclear store was carried in real life by French Jaguars and Mirages.
Looking forward to seeing a nuked up Mirage IIIv doing some "dissuading".
 
Wow, it looks quite impressive. With all the lift jets in four batteries plus the fuel, it was truly huge. A Mirage III airframe stretched if not bloated.
As for R-530, the answer is probably - not many. Don't forget any payload slung below the fuselage will meet a thermal hell at takeoff, with 8 light jets firing like crazy around it. That, and the undercarriage, will make hardpoint lives rather difficult. The classic Mirage IIIE was already limited by the delta and undercarriage, that one is worse.
Bar the central nuke and two pylons, it won't carry much.

Very visible in this lovely shot. There is precious little room to hang anything !

1682281021366-png.698346
 
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Makes a lot of sense. Got carried away.
Heck, you know what ?
I assumed that thread was in THAT section. https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forums/user-artwork-and-models.14/
Which is close enough from alternate history and speculative and the like. I just realized it wasn't there NOW.

To be honest, I can see why some members don't like the "speculative" section as interfering with the "serious", real world stuff. I usually have clear delineation between them in my head. Except in this very peculiar case.

Very interestingly, a case could be make that @Radium stupendous artwork straddles the line between varied forum sections
It is presently THERE
https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forums/secret-postwar-aircraft-projects.17/
But it could be there

Or maybe I unwantingly pushed it in those directions
 
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