• Hi Guest! Forum rules have been updated. All users please read here.

Dassault MIrage III V/STOL Derivatives (Balzac, IIIV)

Jemiba

ACCESS: Above Top Secret
Staff member
Top Contributor
Senior Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2006
Messages
8,296
Reaction score
1,256
Just a trick, I know, but there was a 2-seat version of the Mirage IIIV planned, which
would have been built as number 3 and 4 and was even proposed to the USAF
(from http://www.vstol.org/FrenchVSTOLjets.pdf)
 

Attachments

  • MirageIIIV03.GIF
    MirageIIIV03.GIF
    29.2 KB · Views: 1,262

Archibald

ACCESS: Above Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2006
Messages
5,401
Reaction score
3,442
:) I know that. There was a good article about the Mirage IIIV in autumn 1997 in Le Fana de l'aviation. Only the 01 and 02 were build. The 01 was powered by a TF-106 of 7500 kgp, it's top speed was mach 1.3.
The 02 (powered by the TF-306E) reached mach 2.04 on 12th september and this is still the speed record for a VTOL aircraft. The plane crashed two months later, ending the program...
The only survivor of the VTOL Mirage program, the IIIV-01, is on display at Le Bourget museum near Paris.
 

Justo Miranda

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Dec 2, 2007
Messages
4,763
Reaction score
3,421
Website
www.amazon.com
From
-Air International November 1993
-Le Fana de l'Aviation octobre 1997
-Aviation Magazine Juin 1963
Post-1
 

Attachments

  • Escanear0001.jpg
    Escanear0001.jpg
    224.4 KB · Views: 362
  • Escanear0002.jpg
    Escanear0002.jpg
    716.1 KB · Views: 394
  • Escanear0003.jpg
    Escanear0003.jpg
    326.4 KB · Views: 375
  • Escanear0004.jpg
    Escanear0004.jpg
    211.8 KB · Views: 292
  • Escanear0006.jpg
    Escanear0006.jpg
    492.7 KB · Views: 215

Justo Miranda

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Dec 2, 2007
Messages
4,763
Reaction score
3,421
Website
www.amazon.com
Post-2
 

Attachments

  • Escanear0012.jpg
    Escanear0012.jpg
    124.4 KB · Views: 206
  • Escanear0011.jpg
    Escanear0011.jpg
    223.2 KB · Views: 142
  • Escanear0009.jpg
    Escanear0009.jpg
    238.2 KB · Views: 149
  • Escanear0008.jpg
    Escanear0008.jpg
    774.3 KB · Views: 126
  • Escanear0007.jpg
    Escanear0007.jpg
    681.7 KB · Views: 134

Justo Miranda

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Dec 2, 2007
Messages
4,763
Reaction score
3,421
Website
www.amazon.com
Post-3
 

Attachments

  • Escanear0017.jpg
    Escanear0017.jpg
    218.1 KB · Views: 123
  • Escanear0016.jpg
    Escanear0016.jpg
    255.5 KB · Views: 136
  • Escanear0015.jpg
    Escanear0015.jpg
    270.4 KB · Views: 134
  • Escanear0013.jpg
    Escanear0013.jpg
    207.6 KB · Views: 112

Justo Miranda

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Dec 2, 2007
Messages
4,763
Reaction score
3,421
Website
www.amazon.com
Post-4
 

Attachments

  • Escanear0018.jpg
    Escanear0018.jpg
    152.9 KB · Views: 85
  • Escanear0019.jpg
    Escanear0019.jpg
    88.2 KB · Views: 104
  • Escanear0020.jpg
    Escanear0020.jpg
    267.7 KB · Views: 127
  • Escanear0021.jpg
    Escanear0021.jpg
    507.8 KB · Views: 119

Justo Miranda

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Dec 2, 2007
Messages
4,763
Reaction score
3,421
Website
www.amazon.com
Post-5
 

Attachments

  • Escanear0024.jpg
    Escanear0024.jpg
    288.2 KB · Views: 128
  • Escanear0023.jpg
    Escanear0023.jpg
    222.8 KB · Views: 105
  • Escanear0022.jpg
    Escanear0022.jpg
    474.3 KB · Views: 111

Michel Van

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Aug 13, 2007
Messages
4,976
Reaction score
1,341
thank for posting those wounderfull pictures, Justo
 

alertken

ACCESS: Top Secret
Joined
Jan 20, 2007
Messages
617
Reaction score
225
1946: (ex-RAE axial pioneer) Dr. A.A.Griffith explores very lightweight power. UK derived, from airborne V1/Mistral, Vickers Red Rapier (later, ALCM); RB.82/93 Soar funded as its light/expendable propulsion, adapted as RB.108 liftjet, 5 in Short SC.1, 1957. US from 1957 funded NATO Basic Military Requirements, in part to shepherd FRG back into military industry; France had not yet espoused its counter-productive Anglosphobia, defense a tous azimuths conflation of USSR with USA, and leapt at these industrial/military collaboration opportunities, winning NBMR2 with Atlantique and the Transport with C.160.

A V/STOL Strike type was evolving, so the basic Mirage III platform was adapted for thrust Orpheus and 8 lift RB.108, flying as Balzac in 1962. NBMR.3 was issued 8/61, bid as Mirage IIIV (some Belgian bits; BAC tried to spook onboard)/ATAR (corrected, 21/6, per pr below) thrust/RB162 lift, flying in 1965. All lapsed when HS.P.1154 won the NATO competition, so France pulled out in contumely. Liftjets, ballast for 95% of the sortie, succumbed to swivels; V/STOL succumbed to conventionally powered types in dispersed operation off autobahns.
 

Justo Miranda

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Dec 2, 2007
Messages
4,763
Reaction score
3,421
Website
www.amazon.com
From
-Le Fanatique de l'Aviation -Oct.1997
-Le Fanatique de l'Aviation -Nov.1997
-Unknown Source
Post-1
 

Attachments

  • Escanear0001.jpg
    Escanear0001.jpg
    959.2 KB · Views: 376

Justo Miranda

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Dec 2, 2007
Messages
4,763
Reaction score
3,421
Website
www.amazon.com
From
-Le Fanatique de l'Aviation -Oct.1997
-Le Fanatique de l'Aviation -Nov.1997
-Unknown Source
Post-2
 

Attachments

  • Escanear0002.jpg
    Escanear0002.jpg
    295.1 KB · Views: 304
  • Escanear0003.jpg
    Escanear0003.jpg
    341.2 KB · Views: 289

Justo Miranda

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Dec 2, 2007
Messages
4,763
Reaction score
3,421
Website
www.amazon.com
From
-Le Fanatique de l'Aviation -Oct.1997
-Le Fanatique de l'Aviation -Nov.1997
-Unknown Source
Post-3
 

Attachments

  • Escanear0009.jpg
    Escanear0009.jpg
    181.3 KB · Views: 147
  • Escanear0008.jpg
    Escanear0008.jpg
    273.3 KB · Views: 205
  • Escanear0007.jpg
    Escanear0007.jpg
    270.1 KB · Views: 203
  • Escanear0006.jpg
    Escanear0006.jpg
    155.5 KB · Views: 198
  • Escanear0005.jpg
    Escanear0005.jpg
    290.8 KB · Views: 414
  • Escanear0004.jpg
    Escanear0004.jpg
    235.7 KB · Views: 528

Justo Miranda

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Dec 2, 2007
Messages
4,763
Reaction score
3,421
Website
www.amazon.com
From
-Le Fanatique de l'Aviation -Oct.1997
-Le Fanatique de l'Aviation -Nov.1997
-Unknown Source
Post-4
 

Attachments

  • Escanear0015.jpg
    Escanear0015.jpg
    231.6 KB · Views: 168
  • Escanear0014.jpg
    Escanear0014.jpg
    224.6 KB · Views: 149
  • Escanear0013.jpg
    Escanear0013.jpg
    259.2 KB · Views: 139
  • Escanear0012.jpg
    Escanear0012.jpg
    206.6 KB · Views: 188
  • Escanear0011.jpg
    Escanear0011.jpg
    166.9 KB · Views: 239
  • Escanear0010.jpg
    Escanear0010.jpg
    398.1 KB · Views: 136

Justo Miranda

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Dec 2, 2007
Messages
4,763
Reaction score
3,421
Website
www.amazon.com
From
-Le Fanatique de l'Aviation -Oct.1997
-Le Fanatique de l'Aviation -Nov.1997
-Unknown Source
Post-5
 

Attachments

  • Escanear.jpg
    Escanear.jpg
    96.8 KB · Views: 194
  • Escanear0016.jpg
    Escanear0016.jpg
    302.8 KB · Views: 185
  • Escanear0017.jpg
    Escanear0017.jpg
    120.3 KB · Views: 237
  • Escanear0015.jpg
    Escanear0015.jpg
    231.6 KB · Views: 203

Michel Van

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Aug 13, 2007
Messages
4,976
Reaction score
1,341
some online videos about Balzac

[flash=200,200]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YRwjADnTb5w[/flash]
note the voice is Rene Bigand the Testpilot of Balzac

[flash=200,200]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZ_gp33k80s[/flash]
 

Caravellarella

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Nov 30, 2007
Messages
1,034
Reaction score
222
Dear Boys and Girls, to get this back on-topic; here is a feature in French giving notice that the fantastic Avions Marcel Dassault Mirage III V-01 prototype had made the first full transition flight at Istres on 24th March 1966......

The feature comes from the 15th April 1966 issue of Aviation Magazine International......

Terry (Caravellarella)
 

Caravellarella

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Nov 30, 2007
Messages
1,034
Reaction score
222
Dear Boys and Girls, here is a small piece in French announcing the first flight of the fantastic Avions Marcel Dassault Mirage III V-02 prototype on 22nd June 1966 at Istres......

The piece comes from the 15th July 1966 issue of Aviation Magazine International......

Terry (Caravellarella)......
 

Caravellarella

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Nov 30, 2007
Messages
1,034
Reaction score
222
Dear Boys and Girls, here is a contemporary piece in French giving notice that the superb Avions Marcel Dassault-Sud Aviation Balzac V-001 prototype made its successful transition from vertical take-off to horizontal flight on 18th March 1963 at Melun-Villaroche......

The piece comes from the 1st April 1963 issue of Aviation Magazine......

Terry (Caravellarella)
 

Machdiamond

ACCESS: Secret
Joined
Jan 15, 2007
Messages
328
Reaction score
13
Wind tunnel model of the Mirage III-V.
 

Attachments

  • Mirage III V WT model.jpg
    Mirage III V WT model.jpg
    553.2 KB · Views: 206

Caravellarella

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Nov 30, 2007
Messages
1,034
Reaction score
222
Dear Boys and Girls, here is the first part of a very extensive article in French about the superb Avions Marcel Dassault-Sud Aviation Balzac V-001 prototype......

The article comes from the 1st June 1963 issue of Aviation Magazine......

Terry (Caravellarella)
 

Caravellarella

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Nov 30, 2007
Messages
1,034
Reaction score
222
Dear Boys and Girls, here is the rest of the article in French about the superb Avions Marcel Dassault-Sud Aviation Balzac V-001 prototype from the 1st June 1963 issue of Aviation Magazine......

Terry (Caravellarella)
 

Caravellarella

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Nov 30, 2007
Messages
1,034
Reaction score
222
Dear Boys and Girls, here is a picture with a caption in French of the Avions Marcel Dassault-Sud Aviation Balzac V-001 prototype used to preface an article about VTOL. The picture shows the Balzac being positioned on the special mobile launch pad which was intended to prevent damage to the ground from the exhaust erosion effects of the 8 lift engines.....

The picture comes from the 15th June 1963 issue of Aviation Magazine......

Terry (Caravellarella)
 

Caravellarella

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Nov 30, 2007
Messages
1,034
Reaction score
222
Dear Boys and Girls, here is an editorial in French about the progress and prospects (or lack thereof) for the Avions Marcel Dassault Mirage III V programme. The article also compares the programme with that for the Hawker Siddeley P-1127/Kestrel......

The editorial comes from the 1st October 1966 issue of Aviation Magazine International......

Terry (Caravellarella)
 

archipeppe

ACCESS: Top Secret
Joined
Oct 18, 2007
Messages
1,810
Reaction score
626
I'm always been a great fan of Marcel Dassault especially regarding the outstanding Mirage family.
I have also a question: what are the differences (if ever) among Mirage III-V and Mirage Balzac?
 

Caravellarella

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Nov 30, 2007
Messages
1,034
Reaction score
222
archipeppe said:
I'm always been a great fan of Marcel Dassault especially regarding the outstanding Mirage family.
I have also a question: what are the differences (if ever) among Mirage III-V and Mirage Balzac?

Dear archipeppe, I understand that the Balzac V-001 prototype (which has its own topic)

http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,10281.0.html

was a proof-of-concept test-bed conversion of the very early Mirage III-001 prototype, similar to but much smaller than and actually unrelated to the purpose-built Mirage III V prototypes......

Terry (Caravellarella)
 

Caravellarella

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Nov 30, 2007
Messages
1,034
Reaction score
222
Dear Boys and Girls, here is a small piece in French announcing the first vertical take-off of the fantastic Avions Marcel Dassault Mirage III V-01 prototype on 12th February 1965 at Melun-Villaroche......

The piece comes from the 1st March 1965 issue of Aviation Magazine International......

Terry (Caravellarella)......
 

Caravellarella

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Nov 30, 2007
Messages
1,034
Reaction score
222
Dear Boys and Girls, here is a picture with a caption in French of the Avions Marcel Dassault-Sud Aviation Balzac V-001 prototype as demonstrated at the 1963 Paris Salon alongside the contemporary Hawker P-1127 prototype (which crash-landed during that show).....

The picture comes from the 1st July 1963 issue of Aviation Magazine......

Terry (Caravellarella)
 

archipeppe

ACCESS: Top Secret
Joined
Oct 18, 2007
Messages
1,810
Reaction score
626
Caravellarella said:
Dear archipeppe, I understand that the Balzac V-001 prototype (which has its own topic)

http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,10281.0.html

was a proof-of-concept test-bed conversion of the very early Mirage III-001 prototype, similar to but much smaller than and actually unrelated to the purpose-built Mirage III V prototypes......

Thanks a lot Terry!! :D
 

Caravellarella

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Nov 30, 2007
Messages
1,034
Reaction score
222
Dear Boys and Girls, here are some Rolls-Royce advertisements in French featuring the Avions Marcel Dassault-Sud Aviation Balzac V 001 prototype.

They are from 1963 issues of Aviation Magazine......

Terry (Caravellarella)
 

Caravellarella

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Nov 30, 2007
Messages
1,034
Reaction score
222
Dear Boys and Girls, here is a picture with a caption in French announcing that the Avions Marcel Dassault-Sud Aviation Balzac V-001 prototype had returned to flight-testing after the fatal crash of 10th January 1964.

On the 125th flight-test puffer-pipe roll control was exceeded during an auto-stabilised descent at Melun-Villaroche. CEV test pilot Jacques Pinnier did not eject and was killed when the Balzac landed inverted after falling 60 metres. The lift engines had continued to run during the crash landing......

The picture comes from the 1st March 1965 issue of Aviation Magazine International......

Terry (Caravellarella)
 

Caravellarella

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Nov 30, 2007
Messages
1,034
Reaction score
222
Dear Boys and Girls, here is an article in French about the (then) imminent, but delayed Avions Marcel Dassault Mirage III V-01 prototype (illustrated by a picture of the Avions Marcel Dassault-Sud Aviation Balzac V-001 prototype). The article confirms it was already the intention (at this early stage) to replace the unsatisfactory SNECMA/Pratt & Whitney TF-106 turbofan with the more developed and more powerful TF-306 turbofan......

The article comes from the 1st February 1965 issue of Aviation Magazine International......

Terry (Caravellarella)
 

Caravellarella

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Nov 30, 2007
Messages
1,034
Reaction score
222
Dear Boys and Girls, here is a picture with a caption in French announcing that the Avions Marcel Dassault-Sud Aviation Balzac V-001 prototype would resume flight-testing on 2nd February 1965 after the crash of 10th January 1964. The picture had been used to illustrate an article about the forthcoming Avions Marcel Dassault Mirage III V-01 prototype......

The picture comes from the 1st February 1965 issue of Aviation Magazine International......

Terry (Caravellarella)
 

Tophe

ACCESS: Top Secret
Joined
Feb 18, 2006
Messages
1,149
Reaction score
44
Website
cmeunier.chez-alice.fr
Detail from http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,14633.0.html comparing the prototype Balzac and the Project Mirage IIIV:
Tophe said:
This comes from "L'industrie aéronautique et spatiale française 1907-1982" (GIFAS publishing, 1984). Volume 3 page 103.
ACDAV stands for Avion de Combat à Décollages et Atterissages Verticaux (CA-VTOL: Combat Aircraft with Vertical Take Off and Landing)
 

Attachments

  • r_Mirage&Balzac.JPG
    r_Mirage&Balzac.JPG
    62.6 KB · Views: 1,495

uk 75

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Sep 27, 2006
Messages
3,148
Reaction score
1,875
Another of my favourite 60s projects was the Mirage IIIV vstol fighter bomber.

Apart from the info that at one time (1965 or so) France hoped to use this plane to replace its F100 Super Sabres and
the fact that the Jaguar E and the Mirage F1 were adopted instead, I cannot find any info on the planned in service
appearance of the Mirage IIIV or what it was planned to carry. My best guess is that it was planned to carry a
nuclear store or two air to air missiles (R530 or Sidewinders).

The excellent French language magazine articles have not helped either
 

Michel Van

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Aug 13, 2007
Messages
4,976
Reaction score
1,341
The Mirage IIIV was based on NATO Basic Military Requirement 3 a specification for VTOL strike fighter
This was European program were Britain, Germany and Italy made studies and build prototypes and tested them.
in end only Harrier became operational.

NATO Basic Military Requirement 3 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBMR-3

It's consisted for aircraft in two performance groups, supersonic fighter aircraft (NBMR-3a) and subsonic fighter-bomber aircraft (NBMR-3b)
on NBMR-3a were two finalist P.1154 and Mirage IIIV (pure Fighter concept with guns and rockets)
on NBMR-3b was the winner VFW VAK 191B (had the Nuclear Strike role)
 

Deltafan

ACCESS: Top Secret
Joined
May 8, 2006
Messages
1,155
Reaction score
643
uk 75 said:
Another of my favourite 60s projects was the Mirage IIIV vstol fighter bomber.

Apart from the info that at one time (1965 or so) France hoped to use this plane to replace its F100 Super Sabres and
the fact that the Jaguar E and the Mirage F1 were adopted instead, I cannot find any info on the planned in service
appearance of the Mirage IIIV or what it was planned to carry. My best guess is that it was planned to carry a
nuclear store or two air to air missiles (R530 or Sidewinders).

The excellent French language magazine articles have not helped either
The answers are in MIRAGE III, volume 3, Chénel-Moreau-Liébert, DTU, 2008, pages 397-398.

I give only the main :

They would have been outwardly very similar to the Mirage IIIV 02, but with no little air intake at the basis of the vertical fin. The Mirage IIIV 03 was 50% built before to be scrapped.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

+For Mirage IIIV 03 and 04 prototypes first studies (1964) :

Radar : GAMD Antilope

Central point :
-1xNuclear weapon (580 kg, 3.80m x 0.50m) or 1x1000l tank
-2xexternal 30mm guns
-2x400kg bombs
-1xMatra 530 or AS 30 missile

2xinternal wing points :
-2x400kg bombs
-2xMatra 530 or AS 30 missiles
-2x1300l tanks

2xexternal wing points :
-2xSidewinder missiles

----------------------------------------------------------------


+For Mirage IIIV 03 and 04 prototypes second studies (1965, not completely described), no more radar Antilope, but are especially added :

Missile AS 37 and nuclear weapon AN M3 (650kg, 3.80x0.60m)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------


+For the Mirage V1 machine series project for France and NATO (1960-61) :

nearly like the Mirage IIIV 03 and 04, but with

-2 x internal 30mm guns
-1 x US nuclear weapon (20') B type

-------------------------------------------------------------------------


+For the Mirage V1 machine series project for France alone (1964-65) :

at the end like the Mirage IIIV 03 and 04 from 1965
 

uk 75

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Sep 27, 2006
Messages
3,148
Reaction score
1,875
Thank you Deltafan
I wonder if having a nuclear store on a centre pylon surrounded by jet downthrust would have worked.
 

Deltafan

ACCESS: Top Secret
Joined
May 8, 2006
Messages
1,155
Reaction score
643
I wrote "central point" because of my bad English. Maybe "under the frame" is better...

For the nuclear weapons, it was not foreseen a pylon, but half integrated in the frame.
 

Similar threads

Top