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Dassault Mirage G8A / ACF / Super Mirage

alanqua

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Hello,

After the Mirage 4000, here are other drawings we published but on the ACF. ACF was Avion de Combat Futur, Future Combat Aircraft. The drawings were made from a blueprints issued from the manufacturer + lots of pictures.
They were published in Le Fana de l'Aviation. Enjoy.
Bonus: 2 cuttaway views made from blueprints but they were refused for publication.

Regards
Alain
 

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alanqua

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plan was not correctly uploaded apparently
 

overscan (PaulMM)

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Its a bit large - here's smaller
 

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Michel Van

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little Info about ACF or Mirage G8 or Super Mirage

Dassault wanted successor for Mirage III
and study parallel different Aircrafts including Mirage G8 VG Variable-sweep wing.

at the End was ACF a supersonic fighter equal F-15 !
but the Program end in December 1975 do to Budgetcuts
there a Prototype almost finish
Dassault went to Mirage 2000 + 4000 Project.

data
length 19,10 m (single-seat) 19,30 m (two-seat)
Wingspan: 11,20 m
Wing area: 41 m2
Height: 5,80 m
Empty weight: 14178 kg (single-seat) 14143 kg (two-seat) ?
Max takeoff weight: 29000 kg
Maximum speed: Mach 2,5 (single-seat) Mach 2,2 (two-seat)
Powerplant: 2 x Snecma M53-2 (Turbofan)
Dry thrust: 5500 kp
Thrust with afterburner: 8500 kp
 

Antonio

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Michel,

Nice Mirage book here:

http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,2205.0.html

regards

Antonio
 

Flying Sorcerer

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Anyone have any information/graphics on the Super Mirage? This was supposedly an F-15 class fighter Dassault began designing in the mid-70s. As I recall, it eventually morphed into the Super Mirage 4000, which was actually quite different.
 

Jemiba

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Sorry, typical copy-and-paste error, corrected ! :-[
 

Matej

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Try to start with the unbuilt Mirages topic: http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,839.0/highlight,mega+mirage.html
 

Tophe

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I think the "Super-Mirage" of the early 1970s was the ACF (Avion de Combat Futur - Future Combat Aircraft). IIRC, there was a whole article about it in the magazine "Science et Vie, Hors Série Aviation 1973". I may check if your search is not successful here. Let me know.
 

LowObservable

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I believe that ACF was never formally named Mirage.

After quitting AFVG, and working with the FAF on developing the G VG demonstrator into the twin-engine G4, which finally flew as the G8, Dassault decided that the right design was a 55-degree swept wing - which (off the top of my head) was pretty much a unique solution at the time, although the Russians went that way in the 1950s (MiG-19, Su-7 and scads of prototypes) and the Frightening used a modified version.

I suspect that the French wanted something that had a chance of intercepting a Foxbat.
 

Tophe

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Scanned as I could, from a big book:
Tophe said:
This comes from "L'industrie aéronautique et spatiale française 1907-1982" (GIFAS publishing, 1984). Volume 3 page 103. 233
The caption reads :
Project of single-seat ACF, called Super Mirage
 

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Tophe

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From Science & Vie - Hors Série - Aviation 75 (1975), page 42-43. 2-pages "Du Mirage à l'ACF" (from Mirage to ACF)
 

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toura

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mirage g 8 from "le fana de l'aviation"
 

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toura

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The "Super Mirage" as was the mock up model during inspection on
on January 23 24 1974 at the Dassault factory
(AVIATION MAGAZINE)
 

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toura

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2 drawings and the mock up in Dassault factory
 

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toura

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As at Le Bourget show
and
a project
 

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datafuser

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Was the ACF supposed to carried two semi-recessed Super 530s as its standard air-to-air loadout?
 

Tophe

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In the (French) caption of my March 02 posts is part of the answer, concerning the number of AA missiles: 3 missions were scheduled:
- ground support
- nuclear attack (with 1 air to ground missile)
- interceptor (with TWO ait to air missiles)
 

Stargazer2006

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Maybe it's just me, but I have a feeling there is a confusion in this page between the Mirage G8, the Mirage 4000 and the ACF...
 

Tophe

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After the Mirage G experiment, the military official program was the ACF, and for it: the Mirage G8A (different from the G-8). Then the wing was chosen fixed, and the G8A name disappeared, for just ACF it seems. The name 'Super-Mirage' seems to have applied both to G8A and to "(fixed wing) ACF".
Later the ACF was cancelled and the little Mirage 2000: ordered. Later the bigger Mirage 4000 was designed, and maybe nick-named 'Super Mirage' too, with no relation at all to G8A and "(fixed wing) ACF".
EDIT: according to the Sharkit kit (http://www.sharkit.com/sharkit/G8a/G8a.htm) the G8A had a fixed wing already, so G8A and "fixed wing ACF" would be the same, but different from the G-8.
 

datafuser

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Tophe said:
In the (French) caption of my March 02 posts is part of the answer, concerning the number of AA missiles: 3 missions were scheduled:
- ground support
- nuclear attack (with 1 air to ground missile)
- interceptor (with TWO ait to air missiles)


Thanks, it seems the ACF was unnecessarily large to carry just two Super 530s when intercepting something over France.
 

Tophe

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That's the problem with multimission aircraft: they are too small for some missions and too big for other missions.
Why 2 missiles and not 6? (1 aircraft replacing 3?) I think for 2 reasons :
- control electronics were not efficient enough (the F-14 Tomcat's system reached a new step, impossible before)
- speed requirements were Mach 2.5+ and many missiles would have lessen that
 

datafuser

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Tophe said:
That's the problem with multimission aircraft: they are too small for some missions and too big for other missions.
Why 2 missiles and not 6? (1 aircraft replacing 3?) I think for 2 reasons :
- control electronics were not efficient enough (the F-14 Tomcat's system reached a new step, impossible before)
- speed requirements were Mach 2.5+ and many missiles would have lessen that


Was there supposed to be just one ACF variant that can do both air defence and nuclear strike missions?


As you know in the French air force before 1990, the Mirage 2000 had two versions specialized for air defence (2000C with two Super 530s) and nuclear strike (2000N with one ASMP).
 

Tophe

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Yes, that was the goal, maybe optimistic. It was the perfect aircraft of that time, maybe like the European MRCA (multi role combat aircraft), before giving up and designing a special fighter version (Tornado ADV).
 

Tophe

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The Jane's all the World Aircraft book 1974-75 confirms at last: the G8A=ACF had a fixed wing:
 

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datafuser

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Which is correct: the initial contract, #73/90422, granted to AMD/BA on December 5, 1973 was for a generic "ACF"; an amendment (n°1) to the said contract, dated July 9, 1974 specified that the aircraft designation was "Mirage G8A 01"; this was changed by a further amendment (n°4) on August 1, 1975, to Super Mirage.
ACF / Mirage G8A /Super Mirage was to have two rather different variants: a single-seat interceptor; and a two-seat nuclear strike aircraft to succeed to the Mirage IVA, carrying ASMP. The interceptor had two different missions profiles: high-altitude high speed interception, with only two Super-530 (TOW 21220 kg, climb to M2,2 and 60kft in 5,8 minutes, M2,2 flight for 4 minutes and interception at 400km from base); air patrol, with 2 Super-530, 2 R-550, 23060kg TOW, climb to 50kft, 1,2 hour patrol, acceleration to M2,2, 3 minutes combat. The nuclear strike version (prototype n°2 put on order by amendment #4) had a longer fuselage ( by 0,275m), simplified VG intakes (the interceptor variant had the "expending mouse" intakes that were very successfully tested on G8-02), no specific materials in the areas most subject to kinetic heating (which the interceptor variant had). With one ASMP, two tanks, two R-550 and full internal fuel, TOW was 28040kg, Lo-Lo radius 845km at 100m altitude and 1000km/h (Hi-Lo radius 1200km). Nav/attack systems were very different: optronic seeker and air-to-air radar for the interceptor, TFR for the nuclear strike variant.



This confirms what I suspected - one single type doing both interception and low-level penetration using 1970's technology was not possible.


The Mirage 2000C interceptors have RDI radar, while the Mirage 2000N nuclear strike bombers have Antelope V terrain-following radar.
 

c460

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Pictures show models of two configurations for a replacement of the Jaguar, displayed at Hanover 1980.
Source: Le Moniteur no.33.
The project is called ACF is the magazine, but this was just an acronym for "Avion de Combat Futur" (Future Combat Aircraft) and I think it was used generically in the press to communicate on advanced Dassault projects.
 

hesham

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Hi,


from Jane's All the World's Aircraft,here is the original drawing to the Dassault
Super Mirage and the final drawing,not the small different between them.
 

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hesham

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From Air Pictorial 6/1973,


here is the Dassault ACF.
 

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fightingirish

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alanqua said:
Hello,
After the Mirage 4000, here are other drawings we published but on the ACF. ACF was Avion de Combat Futur, Future Combat Aircraft. The drawings were made from a blueprints issued from the manufacturer + lots of pictures.
They were published in Le Fana de l'Aviation. Enjoy.
Bonus: 2 cuttaway views made from blueprints but they were refused for publication.
Regards
Alain
Nice new drawing of the ACF Super Mirage by Alain in latest March 2018 issue of the French magazine Le Fana de l'Aviation. :)
 
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