Messerschmitt P 1107 and P 1108 long range jet bombers

Stargazer2006

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In the autumn of 1944, Reichsmarschall Göring requested that Junkers, Arado and Messerschmitt design and produce very long range high speed bombers capable of carrying 4-ton bomb payloads. The goal was to be able to attack distant maritime convoys and strategic targets in both the U.S. and the Soviet Union.

In November 1944, Messerschmitt submitted a swept-wing four-jet bomber project designated P 1107. The four engines were mounted in nacelles by pairs under the wings. Though one of the variants considered had a V-tail, the other proposal was equipped with one of the earliest T-tail designs, so as to clear the tail surfaces from the exhaust of the turbojets. As for Junkers, they elected to work at improving their Ju 287 forward-swept wing design, which didn't go without some technical challenges despite the improvements it represented in both aerodynamics and construction.

Simultaneously, the Messerschmitt engineers worked on flying wing bomber designs designated P.1108/1 et P.1108/2. According to their calculations, these various bombers could carry the required payload over a distance of 7,800 kilometers at a speed of about 900 km/h. The range could even be extended to 9,600 kilometers for strategic reconnaissance versions. Junkers also worked — jointly with the DFS sailwing institute — on their own four-jet flying wing proposal, the EF 130.

In January 1945, the RLM examined the proposals made by all three manufacturers. Its experts notified in their report that the Messerschmitt P.1107/1 and /2 offered the highest speeds, but in terms of operational range, Horten's proposals were greatly superior to those of both Messerschmitt and Junkers. Not only was their construction easier, but the use of steel tubing and wood in the fabrication of Horten's wings was a decisive factor that led to that company being selected for that bomber program.

Despite the increasing damage caused by Allied bombings, the Messerschmitt design bureau continued to submit variants of their P.1108 flying wing proposal, but at the end of March 1945, Junkers and Messerschmitt were both ordered by the RLM to cease all development on long range bomber designs. Only the Horten brothers continued work on their Ho XVIII B-2 by personal request of Göring. Some unconfirmed RLM reports suggest that the production of the Ho XVIII B-2 had started on April 1st, 1945 at the Kahia underground factory in Thuringe, but no trace of that prototype — if ever it existed — has survived.

The beautiful and rare Messerschmitt P 1107 company document posted below was reproduced by the Air Documents Division of the the USAF's T-2 AMC Technical Intelligence service at Wright Field, Ohio. It was finally declassified in 1961 and appeared some time ago on eBay.
 

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Stargazer2006

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The Messerschmitt P 1108 flying wing:
 

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redstar72

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The P.1107 and P.1108 have the size of medium bombers. They are pretty close to EE Canberra or Ilyushin Il-28 in size, even B-45 Tornado is much larger. HOW could they be long-range strategic bombers, with 7800 km range?? This look nonsence, isn't it?

As for me, the data from http://www.luft46.com/mess/mess.html (http://www.luft46.com/mess/mep1108i.html for example) look much more plausible...
 

Avimimus

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At the risk of getting off topic - are the ranges quoted for the Ar E.555-11 (14) and Ho XVIII B plausible?
 

lark

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The advantage of the flying wing is that drag has been reduced to a minimun.
As a result , the performance of the flying wing is unequalled in speed , range
and operating economy.

You can in fact ,not compare a flying wing concept with conventional designs as the Il-28 , Canberra and the B-45...
 

Antonio

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7,000 Km with four thirsty first generation jet engines?...simply unrealistic. As many of Luft 46 German projects. A serious examination of most III Reich long range / heavy bombers will show you how deceptive are. The Me 264 Amerika Bomber seems a toy plane compared with its American counterpart, the XB-36 "Germania Bomber". The Me 264 was even smaller than the B-29. So describing P 1107 and P 1108 is, in my opinion, a fantasy.
 

Jemiba

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The flying wing layout may have bettered the possible range, although with hindsight,
we could speculate about flight control and handling problems in those pre-computer
era. But a range of about 7,000 km was predicted for the conventional layouts, too.
Here a number of facts may have played a part:
- Over optimistic predictions for fuel consumption of the still untested BMW 018 jet
- Over optimistic predictions for the aerodynamic efficiency of those new designs,
especially maybe the flying wing types
- And, above all to my opinion, the general demand then to exxagerate performances
of new designs, just to prevent them from being cancelled !
 

redstar72

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lark said:
The advantage of the flying wing is that drag has been reduced to a minimun.
As a result , the performance of the flying wing is unequalled in speed , range
and operating economy.

You can in fact ,not compare a flying wing concept with conventional designs as the Il-28 , Canberra and the B-45...

But there were also conventional designs among P.1107 and 1108 concepts. And such a range was proclaimed for them, too.

OK, maybe they weren't fully conventional - but nothing more peculiar than, for example, British V-bombers. And the V-bombers actually had similar range characteristics of about 7000 km... but were more than 1.5x larger than these Messerschmitt projects. Also, the Avro Vulcan flying wing didn't have any significal advantage in range againts its conventional rivals and wasn't much smaller in size.

And tne Northrop YB-49, which was a true flying wing and a much larger and heavier aircraft than Messerschmitt designs (52.4 m span, 88 tons maximum takeoff weight!), had only 4000 miles (6436 km) range with 4500 kg bomb load.
 

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