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Ing. Campini projects

hesham

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Hi,


the Campnin patent was called C.S.1,and here is also a 3-view to a developed
version of it,and I repeat posting some drawings for the designer from the book;


Aeronautica Militare - La Propulsione a Reazione in Italia
 

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pacopepe

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red admiral said:
Schematic of Re 2005R with Campini turbine - not a proper jet engine. A prototype was meant to have been nearly complete by 1943 iirc

Schematic of Ca 183 propulsion system and cutaway of Re 2007

The image I posted before was from Illustrated London News 1940. I'm guessing that they heard of the first flight of a jet propelled aircraft (the CC.1) and had their artist put something together for print. There are a number of features prominent from Campini's patent in that drawing.

Reggiane 2007? I'm really not sure. Caproni defnitely ordered 2xJumo engines from Germany. Theres no issue with the swept wings, Italy having the world's only supersonic wind tunnels at Guidonia. It fits in well with the ideas proposed at the Aero conference at Volta in 1936.

Joe, for artists impressions of the Re 2007 have a search on google.
Excuse me. I want to make a kit of this Re 2005 R. Could someone indicate me where is air intake of jet engine on this profile?.

Thanks
Fran
 

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lark

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The Re 2005 R dit not use a jet engine but a kind of motorjet as Red Admiral mentioned.
The air for the motorjet is compressed via the piston engine
and fed into the burner for additional thrust.
No need for an intake like a jet engine.
 

lark

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P.S. See also Justo's drawing in reply # 33 of this thread please...
 

pacopepe

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lark said:
P.S. See also Justo's drawing in reply # 33 of this thread please...
Thank you very much! .

In the "other" Re 2005 R, there is really a jet engine. The air intake of jet engine is on the fuselage under the cabin, near the junction with the wing; isn´t it?.

Thanks again
Fran
 

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iverson

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pacopepe said:
lark said:
P.S. See also Justo's drawing in reply # 33 of this thread please...
Thank you very much! .

In the "other" Re 2005 R, there is really a jet engine. The air intake of jet engine is on the fuselage under the cabin, near the junction with the wing; isn´t it?.

Thanks again
Fran
I do not see a true turbojet. I see a motorjet. Note the drive shaft under the cockpit and the gear train leading up to the compressor shaft. The shaft appears to be driven from the forward engine's supercharger drive.
 

Nick Sumner

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Not to derail the subject but in Pacopepe's reply #79 that piston engine looks suspiciously long. Is it a DB609 inverted V 16?
 

lark

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Drawing of "the other" Re 2005-R comes from the alireggiane.com website.
According to the info there, the engine should be a Isotta-Frachini "Gamma"..
No further details of the Marcello Sarracino project for the moment..
 

hesham

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Hi,

here is a clearer view to CS.3 in details.

Le Fana 472
 

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blackkite

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pacopepe said:
red admiral said:
Schematic of Re 2005R with Campini turbine - not a proper jet engine. A prototype was meant to have been nearly complete by 1943 iirc

Schematic of Ca 183 propulsion system and cutaway of Re 2007

The image I posted before was from Illustrated London News 1940. I'm guessing that they heard of the first flight of a jet propelled aircraft (the CC.1) and had their artist put something together for print. There are a number of features prominent from Campini's patent in that drawing.

Reggiane 2007? I'm really not sure. Caproni defnitely ordered 2xJumo engines from Germany. Theres no issue with the swept wings, Italy having the world's only supersonic wind tunnels at Guidonia. It fits in well with the ideas proposed at the Aero conference at Volta in 1936.

Joe, for artists impressions of the Re 2007 have a search on google.
Excuse me. I want to make a kit of this Re 2005 R. Could someone indicate me where is air intake of jet engine on this profile?.

Thanks
Fran
Yes Re2005R did not need extra air intake for jet engine. Only need air intake for piston engine drive compressor(two sets) which located behind the cockpit as you see. Air duct from piston engine drive compressor to front engine runs forward direction. Air duct to jet engine runs aft direction. I imagine that air intake is located near piston engine drive compressor both side of the fuselage to avoid ram air pressure drop through long air duct and weight increase by long duct. So air intake located side of the front engine in attached drawing is little strange for me.
Of course Re2005R need air duct from compressor to FIAT A20 engine and A20 engine exhaust nozzles in side view drawing,too.
 

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blackkite

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Giovanni said:
Thanks to the informations about the RE 2005 R and the drawing reported by Skybolt, I'm trying to

scratch a 1/72 RE 2005 R model based on the axial hypothesis. I'm tracing a drawing . The fuselage is completely different from a RE 2005, just a resemblance. What is used from the RE 2005 are: wings and tail components ( even if modified for the new exaust ).
It's not clear to me if the two intakes for the additional propulsion can be located as I traced on the fuselage side, and which dimensions ? If you can help me, thanks in advance.
Ciao
Giovanni
Hmmm...We don't need air intake located side of the front engine. Fuselage side airintake shape is little strange to generate ram air pressure.
Proper fuselage side air intake shape is like this.
 

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blackkite

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Re: Campini Jet Projects

pometablava said:
From Le Fana de L'Aviation Nº472 March 2009 page 24

CS.4 Bomber: 3 "motoréacteurs" Campini with engines I.F. Asso L121 (1939)
CS.7 Fighter: 2 "motoréacteurs" Campini with engines DB605A (1942)
CS.8 Fighter: 2 "motoréacteurs" Campini with engines DB605A (1942)
CS.10 Fighter: 2 "motoréacteurs" Campini with engines DB605A (1942)
CS.11 Bomber: ? "motoréacteurs" Campini with engines DB605A (1942). Two variants from 1943 with engines Reggiane L103 or 3350 (1550 hp)

No pictures :'(
Hi!
Are these motorjet fighters?

Source
http://epizodsspace.no-ip.org/bibl/raigorodetskii/polureaktivnye/raigorodetskii-polureaktivnie.pdf
 

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blackkite

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Re: Campini Jet Projects

Is this CS.11?

http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,791.0/highlight,campini.html
 

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hesham

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Re: Campini Jet Projects

blackkite said:
Is this CS.11?

http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,791.0/highlight,campini.html
Of course it was CS.11.
 

blackkite

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Re: Campini Jet Projects

Oh thanks!
 

blackkite

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Hi!
Caproni-Campini N.1

http://epizodsspace.no-ip.org/bibl/raigorodetskii/polureaktivnye/raigorodetskii-polureaktivnie.pdf

http://www.isoliti4gatti.it/warbirds/cc2.htm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNz1zZSozPA

http://www.the-blueprints.com/blueprints-depot/ww2planes/various/caproni-campini-cc2-n1.png

http://www.giemmesesto.org/Documentazione/Aerei/Caproni-Campini.html

http://www.avia-it.com/act/cera_una_volta/Aerei_nei_cieli/avianew_cera_una_volta_Aerei_215_CaproniCampiniCC2_pag2.asp
 

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hesham

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Hi,

maybe this drawing for jet-propelled airplane related to Campini ?.

https://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1941/1941%20-%202634.html
https://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1941/1941%20-%202371.html
 

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lark

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Think not. According to the text ,it's just a comment by a reader on the
'imaginary jet propelled craft' of issue Oct 9th...
 

hesham

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Hi,

here is some Campini Projects,the M-wing shape was a future aircraft dream.

http://www.avia-it.com/act/biblioteca/periodici/PDF%20Riviste/Ala/L'Ala%201948%2002.pdf
 

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blackkite

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Hi! Campini CS3 side view large image.
I see two nose devices. One device is compressor. What is nose cone?
http://alternathistory.com/italyanskie-bumazhnye-proekty-proekt-vysotnogo-bombardirovshchika-kampini
Partial auto translation
"A characteristic feature of CS3 was the presence of a compressor powered by a central engine and who started his work at heights exceeding 4000 m. Compressor maintained constant pressure for the three main engines at altitudes between 5000 and 17000 meters; He also guaranteed the pressurization and sealing support cabin control.
Three-speed compressor was equipped with three rotors, two of which were taken outside air, sending a third rotor, who accompanied him to the inputs of the individual compressor motors.
With increasing height provided a significant increase in power, so at an altitude of 17000 m lateral engines developed would power about 1000 HP, passing it on the screws, while the Central engine would transmit 800 HP compressor, zarezerviruâ 200 HP screw balance.
Select only the compressor had the advantage of being allowed to use the normal engines that are in production, without requiring the preparation of a special engine with supercharged engines at high altitudes. In addition there were other advantages, including better performance than offered by large size compressors.
The use of radial engines to increase power instead of Isotta Fraschini Asso l. 121 would further increase the horizontal speed and climb rate.
Under the designation "rocket was proposed CS4 version with the three main engines, which included the same type Kampini, tested previously on the single-engine plane. In this version of speed increased because in addition to the power of the engine was also used power obtained from direct combustion of petrol in combustion chamber.
The official reaction to CS3/CS4 project was very cautious. DGCA, after carefully studying the report submitted by the engineer Kampini, expressed serious doubts about the veracity of the data project. Power absorbed by the compressor, its predecessor into account only to the extent necessary to supply three engines (i.e. without taking into account the need for cabin pressurization), when the alleged efficiency compressor was 0.6 810 HP vs 750 HP, proposed by engineer. The magnitude of compression does not exceed 3.5 values against 6, necessary to obtain the desired pressure, while the throughput of the compressor was fairly low, averaging 0.5 m ³/sec instead of almost 2.5 m ³/s needed to recharge three motors.
Considerable difficulties presented would be cooling engines due to the extreme rarity of air in the stratosphere. In addition, the screws of the side engines would not have been able to develop the same torque at 17000 m (where the air density is reduced to 1/5 of normal) at 5000 m as a result of the efficiency of the compressors to meet up to 13000-meter height, sharply decreased at high altitudes.
Total motor Group excluding damn jet propulsion was considerable constructive given the difficulties and required a high ratio of the compressor, and as a result, oversize dimensions of the compressor, which was not expected from the calculations of the designer. It was also noted that in calculating the amount of air is not directed into the cabin, in addition to high speed were not are average losses of leakage and losses due to enemy resistance (hit).
As far as reactive versions, it was emphasized the strong reduction in connection with the work range of the jets, whose thermal impact was very low.
Placing military load was considered extremely irrational and excessive in relation to constructive capabilities: payload for aircraft with similar characteristics was calculated at approximately 35% of the total weight, and thus the value of load 4000 kg seemed reassuringly proposed 7500 kg. Consequently, payload dramatically declined from 5000 to 1000 kg."

General arrangement drawing.
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c84/AviationImages/CS3.jpg

Where is the radiator? Circular radiator located inside of the engine nacelle?
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=791.0;attach=545094;image
 

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blackkite

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Hi! CS-7, CS-8, CS-500-V, CS-600. I can see pressurized cockpit of these aircraft.

Source : http://www.baronerosso.it/forum/cultura-aeronautica-e-aeromodellistica/359581-tutto-conoscono-il-caproni-campini-cc2-ma.html
 

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hesham

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Great find my dear Blackkite.
 

blackkite

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Thanks a lot. Anyway I am no match for you. ;)

https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Campini_CS.10
 

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blockhaj

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What are the guns on the CS-3?
 

blackkite

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http://raigap.livejournal.com/255645.html

"The defensive weapons consisted of six 12.7-mm machine guns. Two were installed in the root part of the wings, four more stood in twin remote-controlled towers from below and from the top of the fuselage."

http://alternathistory.com/italyanskie-bumazhnye-proekty-proekt-vysotnogo-bombardirovshchika-kampini

"6×12,7-мм Breda-SAFAT"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breda-SAFAT_machine_gun
http://wiki.warthunder.ru/index.php?title=%D0%A4%D0%B0%D0%B9%D0%BB:Breda-SAFAT_da_12,7-mm.png
 

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hesham

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Hi,

as I know in my files,the CS.9 was not a fighter,but a light bomber Project ?.
 

zeroc

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hesham said:
Hi,

what was that Campini project ?.
http://www.flightglobal.com/PDFArchive/View/1941/1941%20-%201949.html?search=jet%20propelled%20aircraft
Hi hesham, hope you like it!
Cheers!
 

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hesham

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zeroc said:
Hi hesham, hope you like it!
Cheers!
Like only,I adore with that great drawing,many thanks to you my dear Zeroc.
 

hesham

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blackkite said:
Thanks a lot. Anyway I am no match for you. ;)

https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Campini_CS.10
From Ali Nuove 11/1959.
 

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