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Aeronautica Umbra fighters

raravia

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Antonio

Surfin in the web i found two of the non built projects from ing. Bellomo who worked for italian Aeronautica Umbra and create these fighter projects before italy get involved in the WWII.

Both are twin engine fighters

the illustrations were not good, but it´s better than nothing.

Enjoy it

Fabián
 

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lark

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Raravia,

More about this plane in "www.airwarfareforum.com"
-choose WW II aircraft
-then put in the search bar Aeronauti Umbra MB-902

you will see...

Enjoy.

Lark
 

Antonio

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¡Fantásticos!, gracias Fabián

Cool forum and people (I have seen Tophe is there)..I'm going to join it. Thanks Lark
 

raravia

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Thank you Lark, i´ve been surfin just a little on this page, and i think it´s very good.

Thanks for the link.

Antonio, i ´m glad you´ll enjoy it, although i guess you knew them.

Saludos

Fabián
 

Antonio

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Fabián,

The Bellomo project is totally new for me. :D
 

hesham

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Hi,


the data for Umbra MB-902.
 

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Grey Havoc

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The USAAC might have dodged yet another bullet with the destruction of the MB-902 prototype. Too late in the war to change much for Italy, but a few production machines could have proven to be a headache for allied bombers. On the other hand, given the state of Italian engine production, they might have been unable to build any production examples even if the prototype had survived and been successfully tested.
 

Skybolt

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There was no prototype in Foligno... A partially completed mock-up at a maximum. And besides that, the angular transmission that was the critical part of the design had never been tested, not even built. Isotta Fraschini extensively tested (you'll see it in ISP) two different solutions for linear extension shafts, proving that the Bellomo's concept (reduce RPM at engine shaft then restore it at propeller gear) could work as designed. The alternate "angular" transmission design, the Alfa 1901 powered by an Alfa 1101 engine, used diagonal transmissions (maybe 45 degrees), with linear extension shafts.
BTW, the wings in the drawing posted by Hesham are wrong, the aspect ratio was higher. The second illustration posted in 2006 is good.
 

Nik

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I've read of an 'odd' engine in fuselage to super-charge the others, but putting the main engines there is certainly unorthodox !!


They certainly deserve kudos for thinking outside of the box !



I'd be concerned about cooling, but there's plenty of fuselage available...


Uh, does dropping the drive-shafts' speed then up-gearing (and reversing) just before contra-props obviate the usual 'long shaft' issues that beset 'buried' designs ??
 

Nico

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Hi all,
I tried "www.airwarfareforum.com"but nothing appeared. Perhaps is mandatory some form of browser or to be logged?
Moreover, about the MB-902 my information probably came from the same sources of those of Skybolt. I can add that the real development of the MB.902 in its final form started only in the first days of July 1941 (the previous fighter projects from Aeronautica Umbra are AUT.18 and AUT.45, designed by eng. Felice Trojani and are completely different and unrelated to MB.902).
The formal order for two prototypes came on April 19, 1942, with serials MM.519 and MM.520. Perhaps the two protypes have to be in different version MB.902C (for Caccia) or Caccia C and MB.902A/A (Attacco/Anticarro) ground attack/tank buster but I cannot endorse that information as I cannot endorse the July 5 1941 proposal of engine the aircraft with two FIAT RA.1050 RC.58 Tifone (Daimler-Benz DB 605A-1).
Surely the development proceeded very slowly and at the armistice date (September 8, 1943) only some tools and minor parts were built and the assembly of the second prototype was never started.
I enclose a sketch published by 'Flying Review' I used some years ago as my Christmas card...
Nico
 

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Jemiba

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Nico said:
I tried "www.airwarfareforum.com"but nothing appeared. Perhaps is mandatory some form of browser or to be logged?
The airwarfareforum closed, I think, at least about two years ago, you just can try to find posts there
via a webarchive like http://www.archive.org/ (although with a quick search, I wasn't successful there ! :-[ )
 

hesham

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Nico said:
Hi all,
I tried "www.airwarfareforum.com"but nothing appeared. Perhaps is mandatory some form of browser or to be logged?
Moreover, about the MB-902 my information probably came from the same sources of those of Skybolt. I can add that the real development of the MB.902 in its final form started only in the first days of July 1941 (the previous fighter projects from Aeronautica Umbra are AUT.18 and AUT.45, designed by eng. Felice Trojani and are completely different and unrelated to MB.902).

Hi,


the Umbra AUT.45 was a twin engined observation and light bomber aircraft project,and not
a fighter.
 

Apophenia

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hesham said:
the Umbra AUT.45 was a twin engined observation and light bomber aircraft project...
Umbra AUT.45 was an April 1938 twin-engine reconnaissance project (in competition with the CANSA FC.20 and others). Power was by 2 x 840hp Fiat A.74 RC.38 with optional Fiat A.76 RC.40 radials (with suggestions that Alfa Romeo Monsone were also being considered). Development ended in April 1940. Crew of 3, Span 18.56m, 4 x 12.7mm Breda-SAFAT machineguns.

Source: Nuova Guida Agli Aeroplani di tutto il Mondo vol.IV -- which has a 3-view drawing
http://reader.ilmiolibro.kataweb.it/v/800504/Nuova_Guida_Agli_Aeroplani_di_tutto_il_Mondo_volIV#!
 

hesham

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Apophenia said:
hesham said:
the Umbra AUT.45 was a twin engined observation and light bomber aircraft project...
Umbra AUT.45 was an April 1938 twin-engine reconnaissance project (in competition with the CANSA FC.20 and others). Power was by 2 x 840hp Fiat A.74 RC.38 with optional Fiat A.76 RC.40 radials (with suggestions that Alfa Romeo Monsone were also being considered). Development ended in April 1940. Crew of 3, Span 18.56m, 4 x 12.7mm Breda-SAFAT machineguns.

Source: Nuova Guida Agli Aeroplani di tutto il Mondo vol.IV -- which has a 3-view drawing
http://reader.ilmiolibro.kataweb.it/v/800504/Nuova_Guida_Agli_Aeroplani_di_tutto_il_Mondo_volIV#!
Excellent my dear Apophenia,


and we can put it here;
 

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Apophenia

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Thanks Hesham! How did you collect those images? ;D
 

Jemiba

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If everythings else fails: Copy a screenshot into a new document (any graphic software, or even
a word document will do ) and cut out the parts you need. Maybe not the intention of the site
owner, but sometimes the end justifies the means .... ;)
 

zeroc

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Jemiba said:
If everythings else fails: Copy a screenshot into a new document (any graphic software, or even
a word document will do ) and cut out the parts you need. Maybe not the intention of the site
owner, but sometimes the end justifies the means .... ;)
Well, being myself the Author of the Nuova Guida agli aeroplani di tutto il mondo, I can tell you that the preview from which these images are cropped, is made for that ;) .
Sincerely, I don't remember where I did recollect the image, but If I find it again amongst those scanned, will be for sure o a better quality, and I'll put on these pages -I promise. Moreover, I alse released the reduced editions of the books on P2P, search for it.
Happy to read that my little work has been useful! ;)
 

zeroc

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Still searchin' for the original scan, I'm posting the page from my book. Hope can helps.
 

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blackkite

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Hi! CANSA FC.20.

http://alternathistory.com/tyazhelyi-istrebitel-ausa-mb902
 

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blackkite

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Where is the radiator?
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=292.0;attach=137204;image
 

blackkite

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Hi Umbra AUT.18.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aeronautica_Umbra_Trojani_AUT.18
http://www.res-aeronautica.com/2010/07/aeronautica-umbra-ausa-t18.html

"Born from the same Regia Aeronautica requirement that spawned the Caproni-Vizzola F.5, FIAT G.50, Macchi C.200, Meridionali Ro 51 and Reggiane Re 2000 fighters, the A.U.T.18 flew for the first time on 22 April 1939, powered by a 1,044 hp (778.51 kW) Fiat A.80 R.C.41 radial engine. The fighter had an all-metal stressed-skin structure, covered in duralumin, featuring an inwardly-retracting undercarriage and retractable tail-wheel and was armed with two 12.7 mm (0.500 in) Breda-SAFAT machine-guns mounted in the wings just outboard of the undercarriage.
Flight trials proved disappointing and lagged behind the other fighters in Progetto R - the modernisation (riammodernamento) of the Regia Aeronautica. With no production orders forthcoming, despite the prototype being returned to the Umbra factory at Foligno for modifications on 20 February 1940 and a second flight test series from 5 November 1940, no improvement was demonstrated over fighters already in production so the A.U.T.18 was abandoned."
 

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painstaking

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Hi Umbra AUT 45
http://trojani.it/Historia/Felice/FeT_articoli_AUT_45.html
 

hesham

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Welcome aboard Painstaking,

and great find,thanks.
 

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hesham

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Also from that site;

http://trojani.it/Historia/Felice/FeT_articoli_AUT%2018.html

(first picture is wrongly labelled, it actually shows the Breda 65 A.80)
 

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hesham

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The AUT-45's Model.

https://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/197858-progetto-tech-tree-aerei-italiani/&
 

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Arjen

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Hasan, your link is not complete. With the link you gave, I need to search 216 separate pages.
 

hesham

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Arjen said:
Hasan, your link is not complete. With the link you gave, I need to search 216 separate pages.
https://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/197858-progetto-tech-tree-aerei-italiani/&page=158
 

hesham

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From Aerei Nella Storia 4-5/2007,

the Umbra AUT.45.
 

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Apophenia

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BTW, in Reply #25, the Trojani image (1.png) with the caption "The first version of the AUT 18, two-seater, entirely metallic[,] armament in the wings, retractable trolley" actually depicts the successfully competing Breda 65 A.80.

See: http://www.alieuomini.it/catalogo/dettaglio_catalogo/breda_ba,46.html
 

Jemiba

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Apophenia said:
...actually depicts the successfully competing Breda 65 A.80.
Thanks for the clue, added it to that post.
 

hesham

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A new Info my dear Apophenia,thanks.
 
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