French Aircraft Carrier Never-Were Designs and Proposals

I've now bought 3 of the books from Beerbaum (French, Italian and small Navies). It's a good source, but a bit limited in data at times.

If you ever manage to get Francis Dousset's book, I'd be very interested in what designs there were after the Joffre. I think it's our best bet to get some hard data on the PA-27 & PA-29 designs.

I've also emailed the Institut de Recherche Stratégique de l'Ecole Militaire last week, but I've received no reply.
 
Can you give design dates for these post WW2 proposals?

That PA-25 surely had British heavy AA as no other country used the 4,5" / 114mm calibre.
20mm is surely the Oerlikon most likely the US version as mounted on the Bearn late war
The 37mm is an interesting choice.
French had two 37mm guns pre occupation the Modèle 1940 Zénithaux which was an anti dive bomber weapon and the older Modèle 1935
Britian might be considering this calibre for it's DACR system post war but it was finally cancelled by the early mid 1950's when the 40mm/70 Bofors gun took over it's place in the designs.
Sweden did not had a modern 37mm gun, Soviet Union is an unlikely candidate which leaves us the German guns probably spares from the war the 37mm FlaK M43 and M42.
Italy too had this calibre but too prewar
 
Mr Tzoli,


There isn’t much more information I can give you from this source, wich has good references but is very poor in details.

The PA25 design is related as a 1945’s project.

The PA28 is a 1947’s Design.

France received the Britain ex-Colossus CV in 1946.

So in my opinion - if this information is correct - this 37mm gun should be a french model. Probably the Modèle 1940.

I hope I can give you the correct answer when, and if, I receive a more complete source of information.
 
not sure if right thread
but here we go

PANG-Frances-New-Aircraft-Carrier-Will-be-Nuclear-Powered-scaled.jpg


PANG-aircrat-carrier-3.jpg.webp


The initial artist impressions released by Naval Group confirm some of the technical details which we have been reporting since July:


  • Nuclear powered (CVN) with two K22 reactors (2 x 220 MW thermal)
  • Length between 285 and 295 meters
  • Full load displacement around 70,000 – 75,000 tonnes
  • Maximum speed: 26 to 27 knots (similar to Charles de Gaulle)
  • Propulsive power would be around 80 MW delivered to three or four shaft lines
  • Total power around 110 MW, including the electrical plant
  • Future air wing: 32 Next Generation Fighters with 2 to 3 E-2D Advanced Hawkeyes and a yet to be determined number of remote carriers/UCAVs
  • Two side elevators with 40 tonnes lifting capacity
  • Three 90-meter electromagnetic catapults (EMALS) by General Atomics
  • Flight deck: 16,000 m²
  • Aircraft hangar: 5,000 m²
  • Crew: 900 and 1080 sailors (not including the air element of 550 to 620 sailors) with higher comfort compared to Charles de Gaulle.
  • Thales SeaFire radar
  • PAAMS with MBDA ASTER surface to air missiles for self defense
 
This French forum has the best info on design histories, not just for Clemenceau/Focus but also many other pre- and post-war naval designs. I think some of the info is from the Jean Moulin book referenced in the 1st link you posted in the OP.


Still not a lot of detail, except for this pic of PA-25 from the book.

624109Pa19and25.jpg
Can someone translate what PA 25 says.
 
This French forum has the best info on design histories, not just for Clemenceau/Focus but also many other pre- and post-war naval designs. I think some of the info is from the Jean Moulin book referenced in the 1st link you posted in the OP.


Still not a lot of detail, except for this pic of PA-25 from the book.

624109Pa19and25.jpg
Can someone translate what PA 25 says.
"Project PA25 (variant C during the Occupation).
The armament comprised 8 100mm AA, 16 40mm and 20 20mm. After the Liberation, a variant D, of a slightly different silhouette, was provided with 8 100mm AA, 8 quadruple 40mm mounts (including one in the extreme front), and 4 20mm." I'm not sure if for the Variant D, it means 4 quadruple 20mm or 4 20mm in total.
 
This French forum has the best info on design histories, not just for Clemenceau/Focus but also many other pre- and post-war naval designs. I think some of the info is from the Jean Moulin book referenced in the 1st link you posted in the OP.


Still not a lot of detail, except for this pic of PA-25 from the book.

624109Pa19and25.jpg
Can someone translate what PA 25 says.
"Project PA25 (variant C during the Occupation).
The armament comprised 8 100mm AA, 16 40mm and 20 20mm. After the Liberation, a variant D, of a slightly different silhouette, was provided with 8 100mm AA, 8 quadruple 40mm mounts (including one in the extreme front), and 4 20mm." I'm not sure if for the Variant D, it means 4 quadruple 20mm or 4 20mm in total.
Thank you.
 
Is there any information about PA-21? Unless there isn't info on that I simply didn't see, or if it is a mystery design, or it got skipped over.
 
Acording to Tous Les Porte-Aeronefs En France de 1912 À Nos jours PA-21 was planned hybrid carrier-battleship based on Richelieu, displacement 42 270t, 242m(PP) x 33m x 9.1m, 150 000shp, 31 ktns. It had two hangars, one quadruple 380mm turret, 16 100mm, 16 37mm and 20 25mm AA guns. No mention of aircraft complement. There is a crude linedrawing, which I believe has been posted here already
 
Normandie océan liner conversion proposal into aircraft carrier

 
I discovered this project (which I think is real) to convert the Comandant Teste hydroplane carrier into a light aircraft carrier just after the Second World War.
The Dixmude carrier wiki page states :
The transformation of the seaplane transport Commandant Teste into an escort aircraft carrier was mentioned in October 1945, only to be abandoned the following February.
french-seaplane-carrier-commandant-teste.png.62c3c816967e85bb3d5a0c4897d6b297.png
 
Cdt Teste had been a victim of 11/1942 scuttling. Three years at the bottom of Toulon harbor did no good. Still, it was salvaged - but only as a floating logistics depot. In that role however it lasted until the early 60's - just like Bearn, now a floating barracks. Both saw Foch and Clems IOC at Toulon harbor !
 
I checked. Cdt Teste was moored at Toulon Harbor as a floating logistics store until 1963. Bearn was there too, used as a divers school training barracks until 1967.
Dixmude, Lafayette and Bois Belleau were all decommissionned in 1960-63.
Arromanches remained in service until 1974.
Foch and Clem IOCs were in the 1960-64 era.
So - all french carriers (minus CdG, d'oh) hanged around Toulon harbor circa 1963. A pity we have so few pictures. For a brief time it was a like a museum of French carriers... !
 

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