PA NG - next gen French Aircraft carrier program

[fightingirish]

New French nuclear powered aircraft carrier.
Please see or follow the twitter thread from the French SecDef with more pictures:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1336354119599140871

View: https://twitter.com/florence_parly/status/1336354119599140871?s=19

 

[Moose]

Xav's coverage (in English).

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1336350256934637570

View: https://twitter.com/navalnewscom/status/1336350256934637570


Cool to see them going with the most capable option they can, though I'll be happier if they can produce at least 2.

 

[JohnR]

What power will the nuclear plant produce, won't they have to design a custom plant after the experience with the K15 plant in CdeG?

 

[TomS]

It's a mini-Ford...

 

[TomS]

What power will the nuclear plant produce, won't they have to design a custom plant after the experience with the K15 plant in CdeG?

THe Twitter announcement thread has quite a bt of info, spread over numerous posts. Starts here:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1336354119599140871

View: https://twitter.com/florence_parly/status/1336354119599140871

 

[TomS]

And here:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1336354161143721986

View: https://twitter.com/florence_parly/status/1336354161143721986


75,000 tons, 2 K22 reactors, 3 shafts, EM catapults, 30 SCAF (FCAS) aircraft.

 

[uk 75]

2038 Ho hum something to look forward to when I celebrate my 73rd birthday in the twilight carehovel for bewildered nerds.

 

[JohnR]

Merci, my French is merd

 

[marauder2048]

75,000 tons, 2 K22 reactors, 3 shafts, EM catapults, 30 SCAF (FCAS) aircraft.

75,000 tonnes -> 82,000 tons. Wasn't that the standard displacement for the original Nimitz (CVN-68)?

When you said "Mini-Ford" I had the same reaction to the point where I went back and looked at the RAND
2016 carrier study that had that CVN LX design.

 

[H_K]

Here’s a size comparison with Ford, CVF/PA2 and CdG.

 

[TomS]

They don't have a single converged design yet. The 3-view drawings show a very different flight deck than the renders, for example. The 3-view version has a big cut out at the port aft corner, while the other renders show a very small cutout or even a Ford-like filled-in corner.

 

[Archibald]

Merci, my French is merd

"merdique" (= shitty)

 

[Archibald]

Hell of a ship if we ever build it. It will shatter the record of heaviest french warship, ever: must be Jean Bart and Richelieu battleships from the 1940's... unless CdG ended with a largest tonnage of course. 45000 tons at most.

 

[Thorvic]

Glad to see some movement again on the programme, but considering there was supposed to be a 2nd CdG, then a CVF, to accompany CdG, and now its being lined up as a replacement in 18 yrs time. They have to start the detailed design and fund it now so that it will be ready to replace the CDG when the time comes but as an overall program its been a bit of a political nightmare and the Navy has suffered as a result.

 

[Hood]

Now we know why they never went through with a joint programme with the RN. That looks an impressive design, very much like current US CVNs, lots of deck space but quite a short bow (either that or the angled deck is further forward than we've seen in the past), lots of sponsons with what looks like CIWS and VLS for Aster.
Makes QE and PoW look quite pedestrian to be honest.

 

[Hood]

This looks an impressive design, very much like current US CVNs, lots of deck space but quite a short bow (probably an optical illusion based on the top views), lots of sponsons with what looks like CIWS and VLS for Aster.
Makes QE and PoW look quite pedestrian to be honest.

Will it get built? Probably but its going to be the most capable carrier in European waters in the 2040s.

 

[kaiserbill]

Saw these images on RT and Reuters.
Macron viewing a model of the proposed carrier.
Poor quality 1st image, slightly better next 2, but here it is FWIW.

 

[Cordy]

The new French aircraft carrier PANG, Porte Avion Nouvelle Generation (new generation aircraft carrier), a successor to the existing Charles de Gaulle aircraft carrier in 2038.

No price tag given but AP saying French media estimate it will cost around $8.5 billion, the UK conventionally powered QNLZ STOVL class cost ~$4 billion each.

Displacement 70-75,000t, same as the earlier PA2 , Porte-Avions 2, the French CATOBAR variant of the QNLZ.

Nuclear powered with two K22 reactors, 2x 220 MW thermal, total power, ~ 110 MW, propulsion system ~ 80 MW delivered to three or four shafts, using 3x EMALS and AAG same as those fitted aboard the USS Ford.

Flight deck quoted as 16,000 m² /172,000 sq ft, the 100,000t USS Ford 1,092 ft × 256 ft, ~ 280,000 sq ft ?

Crew and air wing ~2,000, USS Ford ~4,600.

 

[Archibald]

Glad to see some movement again on the programme, but considering there was supposed to be a 2nd CdG, then a CVF, to accompany CdG, and now its being lined up as a replacement in 18 yrs time. They have to start the detailed design and fund it now so that it will be ready to replace the CDG when the time comes but as an overall program its been a bit of a political nightmare and the Navy has suffered as a result.

I'm worried about this, too. Very worried. About funding.

In the case of the second CdG / CVF, it lasted from
- the late Giscard starting the project on September 23, 1980 council of defense
- little Sarko' cancelling CVF in 2009 (it was the correct move, instead of two widely different carriers screwing the Navy small budget).

Three entire decades.

It boils down to a simple question. Can France afford two 75 000 tons nuclear carriers ? history since 1975 is not reassuring. At all.
Plus the recent story of the FREMM frigates, since 2006. A complete fiasco.

I would be more reassured if France started from an existing design, that is: the British Q.E. class.
Back to CVF, somewhat. Except with nuclear powerplant and EMALS - it would be a decent ship.
But starting from scratch ?!

 

[flateric]

...

 

[flateric]

Sorry, I can't resist

 

[Archibald]

The new French aircraft carrier PANG, Porte Avion Nouvelle Generation (new generation aircraft carrier), a successor to the existing Charles de Gaulle aircraft carrier in 2038.

No price tag given but AP saying French media estimate it will cost around $8.5 billion, the UK conventionally powered QNLZ STOVL class cost ~$4 billion each.

Displacement 70-75,000t, same as the earlier PA2 , Porte-Avions 2, the French CATOBAR variant of the QNLZ.

Nuclear powered with two K22 reactors, 2x 220 MW thermal, total power, ~ 110 MW, propulsion system ~ 80 MW delivered to three or four shafts, using 3x EMALS and AAG same as those fitted aboard the USS Ford.

Flight deck quoted as 16,000 m² /172,000 sq ft, the 100,000t USS Ford 1,092 ft × 256 ft, ~ 280,000 sq ft ?

Crew and air wing ~2,000, USS Ford ~4,600.

Hopefully it is related, even loosely, to the CVF / PA2 / Q.E design. IT could save France a lot of hassle. Even if EMALS and nuclear powerplant are not part of the Q.E design.
Don't forget, Forrestal / Kitty Hawk, Enterprise, America & JFK were all loosely related in overall design, even if some were nuclear and others were not.

 

[flateric]

...

 

[galgot]

Sorry, I can't resist

That one is more steam (punk) than nuclear, and for years 2100s, before we go back to stone age.

 

[Anderman]

Sorry, I can't resist

If YouTube hat attached the richtige Sound file it would be forgiven but so....

SNCR

 

[PMN1]

Any reason given for why the stern is the way it is, with the flight deck not going all the way to the stern?

 

[TomS]

Any reason given for why the stern is the way it is, with the flight deck not going all the way to the stern?

I'd assume it's basically an elaborate stern wedge or flap; a way to extend the waterline length and reduce drag without adding displacement by enclosing the volume above it.

 

[Moose]

Looks like they are planning to adopt a version of the USN's "pit stop" deck spot between the elevators.

 

[JohnR]

The shape of the stern is similar to ones fitted to a number of cruise ship, most notably on the various Viking's.

The conical arrangement on the island reminds me of the original structure on the Enterprises island - as a kid I thought that was to do with the reactor.

 

[Grey Havoc]

The shape of the stern is similar to ones fitted to a number of cruise ship, most notably on the various Viking's.

Trying to leverage some design expertise from the civilian sector do you think?

 

[Grey Havoc]

France To Build New Nuclear-Powered Aircraft Carrier - Slashdot

France will build a new, nuclear-powered aircraft carrier to replace its Charles de Gaulle carrier by 2038, French President Emmanuel Macron announced Tuesday. The Associated Press reports: Macron framed the decision to use nuclear reactors to propel the future warship as part of France's...

tech.slashdot.org

 

[TomS]

The conical arrangement on the island reminds me of the original structure on the Enterprises island - as a kid I thought that was to do with the reactor.

Looks like it's very similar to the FTI/FDI/Belharra frigate.

https://www.naval-technology.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/5/2017/09/1l-image-86.jpg

 

[sferrin]

Surprised it's only got 3 cats.

 

[TomS]

Surprised it's only got 3 cats.

Some of the drawings and the big model show only two. Four wouldn't fit, given that this ship has around half the deck area of a Ford.

 

[sferrin]

Surprised it's only got 3 cats.

Some of the drawings and the big model show only two. Four wouldn't fit, given that this ship has around half the deck area of a Ford.

Four fit on the smaller Forrestals.

 

[galgot]

I think Forrestal was 82000 t.
PANG is to be 75000t.

 

[JohnR]

On the Post War Essex Class thread, it mentions the speed reduction caused by steam catapult. Is there likely to be a similar fall in speed when using Emals?

Have the problems that the Americans have with the cats and traps on Ford been resolved?

 

[sferrin]

Thought their standard displacement was around 60k tons and a full load figure of ~80k?

 

[TomS]

Surprised it's only got 3 cats.

Some of the drawings and the big model show only two. Four wouldn't fit, given that this ship has around half the deck area of a Ford.

Four fit on the smaller Forrestals.

OK, four possibly could fit, technically. PA NG has a similar flight deck area as Forrestal, though Forrestal herself had smaller cats compared to the likely C-13 equivalents on the new French ship. But would they be usable with an effective deck park?

Looking at the renders with aircraft on deck, there really isn't room to effectively use more than two or possibly three cats. Maybe two on the bow (in case one goes down) plus one in the waist for sequential launches. But the number of cats isn't going to be a huge limiting factor with a fixed-wing airwing of <36 aircraft (30 SCAF plus 3 E-2C).

 

[TomS]

Looking at these two shot really highlights that they have (at least) two different designs in play right now. Different arrangements on the flgiht deck (2 vs 3 cats, for starters, plus different cuts in the port quarter of the flight deck). And the arrangement of defensive armament is really different.

The stern quarter shot also shows why aircraft carrier designers are really uncomfortable with VLS. Look at the VLS nest right near the stern of the ship. It has an aircraft parked with its tail hanging over the edge of the deck directly above the VLS. I'd give even money on one of those missiles or bits from the canister cover hitting that aircraft when launched.

Also interesting to see Millennium 35mm mounts for close-in defense. I suspect it's just that the designer didn't have a 3d object for the new RAPIDFire 40mm CTA mount that seems to be the new standard for the MN.