BAC/Sud Aviation Concorde - Development, Variants, Projects

Archibald

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According to Key Publishing (I just hate this forum, so don't ask me why I browse there!) there had been studies for an improved concorde.
- No reheat
- another stage compressor on the engines
- 25% more range
- leading edge slats
- more fuel
Of course, this went to nothing because of the economic failure of the concorde.
I really want to know more about that, but I have doubts on the engines (The olympus was pushed to its limits, and on this case they get ride off the afterburner? :eek: ? bizarre!)
 

overscan

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Reheat on the Olympus was only partial, and not used during cruise. With some increase in dry thrust, it could be removed.
 

Archibald

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With the improved range (up to 5000 miles or 8000 kms) could Lufthansa (or Swissair, or other "central-europe" based airlines) used the Concorde from Germany, flying at subsonic speed over France?
 

elmayerle

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TsrJoe said:
what areas were filled with the movable leading edges? the whole le. or just a portion?
I'd guesstimate that the straight section of leading edge wss the main portion that was moveable. Trying to do that on the rest just starts getting messy to deal with aerodynamically.
 

PMN1

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http://www.concordesst.com/concordeb.html

Does anyone have any other information on a proposed Concorde B that would have removed the need for afterburners?
 

elmayerle

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In all honesty, I'd love to see a detailed comparison between that upgraded Olympus and a dry P&W JTF16 (their losing SST engine). Without the need to go Mach 3, they might well have been able to meet the Concorde B's requirements in a dry condition. Since this engine would already be a turbofan, it might contribute to further noise reductions.
 

PMN1

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Elmayerle has mentioned on my repost of Concorde B

'In all honesty, I'd love to see a detailed comparison between that upgraded Olympus and a dry P&W JTF16 (their losing SST engine). Without the need to go Mach 3, they might well have been able to meet the Concorde B's requirements in a dry condition. Since this engine would already be a turbofan, it might contribute to further noise reductions.'

This would be interesting, we could have a scenario of a US engine manufacturer supporting a foreign aircraft - not so strange now but back then.....
 

flateric

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Concorde B topics megred. Enjoy.
 

Rafael

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Yeah, I know I'm an ignorant, but since I read here that the Concorde B's engines would not have reheat, ¿would it then be possible to design such an airliner around the new crop of super-cruising engines, working without after-burning to achieve supersonic speeds?

Rafa
 

elmayerle

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PMN1 said:
Elmayerle has mentioned on my repost of Concorde B

'In all honesty, I'd love to see a detailed comparison between that upgraded Olympus and a dry P&W JTF16 (their losing SST engine). Without the need to go Mach 3, they might well have been able to meet the Concorde B's requirements in a dry condition. Since this engine would already be a turbofan, it might contribute to further noise reductions.'

This would be interesting, we could have a scenario of a US engine manufacturer supporting a foreign aircraft - not so strange now but back then.....
Well, at the time UTC had a minor share in SNECMA, so they could've supplied the data that way, much as JTF10/TF30 data was supplied earlier.
 

Just call me Ray

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hesham said:
Hi,

the BAC 223 SST aircraft are well known aircraft which later
become the Concorde.
Not entirely. The best features of the BAC 223 were combined with the French Super Caravelle to create Concorde - basically the wings of the 223 with the fuselage of the Caravelle (increased in diameter)
 

red admiral

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Preliminary aerodynamic models of Concorde showing differing wing/body designs from fully blended to historical. Text reads;

Wind Tunnel Models. These seven wind tunnel models demonstrate stages in the development of Concorde's ogee wing plan. A variety of forms were assessed to find the most efficient plan for this supersonic passenger aircraft.

The big model in front is a drop model, dropped from an aircraft and allowed to glide to earth to observe the aerodynamics.

Pictures are from Fleet Air Arm Museum, Yeovilton





More pictures
http://s25.photobucket.com/albums/c84/AviationImages/FAA%20Museum/
 

Jemiba

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Super Caravelle

"do you have the X-220 Super Caravelle projects ?"

In "Concorde" by Pierre Sparaco, Docavia several early studies of the so-called
Super Carvelle could be found, illustrating the way from a type, that really showed
the Caravell relations, over delat canards to the final formula, which became the
Concorde.

(from Aviation Week 18/1961 and the above mentioned book)
 

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hesham

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Re: Super Caravelle

Thank you my dear Jemiba,

and can I ask about if the X-230 and X-240 were also airliner projects or not ?.
 

hesham

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Hi,

also from Flightglobal;
http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1964/1964%20-%201705.html
 

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hesham

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Hi,

I spoke before about the BAC-223 and the projects which
led to Concorde,here;

http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,4043.0/highlight,concorde.html

and from google,some early Concorde designs;

http://books.google.com.eg/books?id=E-5ga8mAhPYC&pg=PA14&dq=SNCASO+CONCORDE&hl=ar&ei=PPwhTOWyFZKhsQb1jOTlBQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=7&ved=0CEUQ6AEwBg#v=onepage&q&f=true
 

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Grey Havoc

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Jemiba said:
Topics merged.
Hesham, please just add posts, if there already is an appropriate topic, instead of
creating a new one. ;)
On the other hand, the search engine still acts up at times, so creating duplicate topics is all too easy.
 
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