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BAC Designation System

ursrius

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BAC's military side appears to have a well defined designation system, primarily following on from English Electric's, but the civil side, at least as published, seems to have just 'press friendly' names or numbers (as Boeing). Here are the civil projects that come to mind. Does anyone have any real type numbers to tie into these:

BAC-111
BAC-211
BAC-311
BAC-201
BAC-401
QSTOL
Europlane
Super One-Eleven
Biz Jet (1968 project)


This is what I have on the military (Warton) side:

P.45 1/2S, 2E fixed and v.g. strike / trainer
P.46 Multiple studies to Jones Committee
P.47 STOL Canberra study
P.48 Unknown
P.49 2E light strike trainer
P.50 Unknown
P.51 UKVG 2S, 2E V.G. strike aircraft.
P.52 Unknown
P.53 Fixed wing version of P.51
P.54 Unknown
P.55 Unknown
P.56 Unknown
P.57 AA-107 - Family of small V.G. advanced trainer/close support aircraft - collaborative venture with Australia.
P.58 Unknown
P.59 Unknown
P.60 AA-107 See P.57
P.61 Family of small V.G. advanced trainer/close support and air superiority aircraft to compliment P.60
P.62 Unknown
P.63 Jaguar development
P.64 Studies to AST.396
P.65 GAC(US) / BAC joint venture studies
P.66 Variant of P.61 to AST.396
P.67 Tornado IDS 2S, 2E V.G. tactical strike aircraft
P.68 Tornado ADV 2S, 2E V.G. air defense aircraft
P.69 Jaguar development
P.70 Jaguar VTOL development (R.R. Pegasus)
P.71 Jaguar VTOL development (lift + cruise engines)
P.72 Various studies to AST.396
P.73 Lightweight V.G. studies to AST.396
P.74 Jaguar development
P.75 RPV Studies
P.76 P.67 Tornado variant to AST.396
P.77 Jaguar development (minimal change)
P.78 Jaguar development (new wing)
P.79 Jaguar development (new fuselage)
P.80 RPV Studies
P.81 RPV Studies
P.82 RPV Studies
P.83 RPV Studies
P.84 RPV Studies
P.85 RPV Studies
P.86 Jaguar development
P.87 Jaguar development
P.88 Blended body fixed wing aircraft
P.89 Blended body delta wing aircraft
P.90 V.G. design for comparison with P.88 and P.89"
P.91 1E, blended body V.G. strike fighter
P.92 2E V.G. fighter
P.93 1E delta winged fighter
P.94 2E delta winged fighter
P.95 1E fighter
P.96 2E fighter
P.97 Super Jaguar

(All the above mostly from BSP)

Before P.45 I consider to be English Electric, and after P.97 to be British Aerospace. Of course, It is hard to be so cut and dried, but these make convenient definitions for 'accounting' purposes.

To add to those from Warton we have the AFVG and Jaguar. Did they receive any internal type number?
 

ursrius

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Additionally, the following BAC (ex-Hunting) projects:

H.158 2E basic jet trainer
H.159 Jet Provost derivative with 2 fuselage mounted engines
H.160 Tandem COIN aircraft
H.161 Side-by-side COIN aircraft
H.162 Basic trainer
H.163 2E COIN aircraft
H.164 Jet Provost Mk.52 with T.5 wings
H.165 2E COIN aircraft
H.166 Jet Provost T.5 development aircraft for P.164 and P.167
H.167 Strikemaster
H.168 Stretched Jet Provost derivative
H.169 AEW derivative of Hunting Pembroke
H.170 Type 164 with RB172 powerplant
H.171 Type 164 with RB152 powerplant
H.172 2E COIN aircraft
H.173 2E COIN aircraft

Before H.158 I consider as original Hunting designs, but again, one cannot be that cut and dried.
 

hesham

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Great work Ursrius,

and I can add;

- there was anther series from P.130 up to P.173
- GOR-357 Maritime Recce airplane Project proposal
- STOL
- RSTOL
- RTOL
- X-Eleven
- Super One-Eleven
- AST
- R.14 VG Fighter (not sure about it)
- VTO Fighter
- Mach 3 SST
- WSRA
- Air Breathing
- TSR.2 Hypersonic (not sure)
- A.1 SST
- A.5 SST
- E.6 Hypersonic
- Mustard
- the series of EAG
 

ursrius

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Hesham,

Thanks. The P.130 to P.173 series would presumably be the Hunting series I mentioned earlier. According to David Gearing in 'On The Wings Of A Gull', after P.119 this series is correctly prefixed 'H'. H130 to H134 were Hunting designs that pre-dated the merger into BAC, while H.135 to H.156 were designs within the BAC time but before the Hunting name disappeared.

BAC's submissions to OR.357, according to Gibson's 'Nimrod's Genesis' were:

A derivative of the Bristol 222, itself a Hercules derivative.
A Bristol Britannia derivative
Many VC.10 variants, including variable sweep and even supersonics.

Gibson gives no indication of type or study numbers applied to these. Did they have any internal designation?

A.1 SST, A.5 SST, E.6 Hypersonic: these were Hawker Siddeley studies, all part of the larger APD.1019 family of advanced projects from Kingston (See BSP4).

Mustard is nicely covered in the new BSP 5 and it comes under the EAG series. As for the EAG series, these were strictly speaking drawing numbers allocated to project studies, starting in the time of English electric and continuing through into BAC. As such, they are not per se part of a designation system, but are most certainly worthy of study in their own right. Many are well covered in BSP 4 and 5.
 

ursrius

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...and on second thoughts about P.130 to P.173, that could also be HSA Brough, with P.139 to P.183 being used after Blackburn's numbering system became part of HSA. After P.183 it became integrated with the Kingston (ex-Hawker) system

As for the EAG numbers, this from BSP 4 "The EAG nomenclature describes drawings English Electric produced as part of design studies.....The number can refer to a specific drawing or block of drawings rather than a particular project. They are sequential and continue in BAE Systems to date." Now, wouldn't that be a fascinating list to find!

BSP 5, and to a lesser extent BSP 4, have quite a few EAG numbers listed, belonging either to the P.42 hypersonic vehicle studies (started under English Electric) or the MUSTARD spaceplane. Below is what I have that are specifically BAC; earlier numbers, as seen in the original drawings in BSP 5, are English Electric:

EAG.4432Mach 4 booster with 3 flashjets
EAG.4433 Recoverable research vehicle
EAG.4434 BAC drawing of the Douglas (USA) Astro Spaceplane
EAG.4435 P.42 Mach 4 booster, kerosene fueled
EAG.4436 8 space module studies
EAG.4437 Mustard (Scheme 1) 2S, 1E rocket powered space module
EAG.4438 4E mach 4 booster
EAG.4441 P.42 2S, 2E reconnaissance aircraft
EAG.4442 Mustard (Scheme 3) 2S, 3E rocket powered space module
EAG.4444 8E Mustard launcher aircraft
EAG.4445 Mustard (Scheme 3) 3-ship cluster
EAG.4446 P.42 5E spaceplane booster aircraft
EAG.4450 Mustard (Scheme 4) 5S, 6E (4 rocket, 2 turbojet) space module
EAG.4453 6E mach 7 spaceplane booster aircraft
EAG.4454 Mustard (Scheme 5) 5S, 6E (4 rocket, 2 turbojet) space module
EAG.4455 1S Mustard low speed glider
EAG.4456 1E Mach 10 VTO cruise vehicle.
EAG.4458 2E high speed vehicle.
EAG.4459 2E high speed vehicle.
EAG.???? 4E mach 4 aircraft (possibly EAG.4450)
EAG.4461 CREST Mustard test vehicle
EAG.4462 CREST Mustard test vehicle
EAG.4463 Mustard (Scheme 6) 5S, 3E (1 aerospike, 2 turbojet) space module
EAG.4464 1E Mustard expendable booster.
EAG.4465 Mustard (Scheme 7) 5S, 6E (4 rocket, 2 turbojet) space module
EAG.4466 Mustard (Scheme 7) 4-ship stack
EAG.4467 Mustard (Scheme 7) 3-ship cluster
EAG.4468 Liquid hydrogen powered aircraft
EAG.4470 Mustard (Scheme 8) 5S, 6E (4 rocket, 2 turbojet) space module
EAG.4471 Mustard (Scheme 9) 5S, 6E (4 rocket, 2 turbojet) space module
EAG.4472 Mustard (Scheme 10) 5S, 6E (4 rocket, 2 turbojet) space module
EAG.4473 Mustard (Scheme 11) 5S, 6E (4 rocket, 2 turbojet) space module
EAG.4474 Mustard (Scheme 12) 5S, 6E (4 rocket, 2 turbojet) space module
EAG.4475 3S, 6E (4 rocket, 2 turbojet) orbital recce plane
EAG.4476 Mustard (Scheme 13) 5S, 6E (4 rocket, 2 turbojet) space module
EAG.4477 Mustard (Scheme 14) 5S, 6E (4 rocket, 2 turbojet) space module
EAG.4478 Mustard (Scheme 15) 5S, 5E (4 rocket, 1 turbojet) space module
EAG.4479 5S, 5E (4 rocket, 1 turbojet) space module
EAG.4483 Mustard (Scheme 15) 5S, 5E (4 rocket, 1 turbojet) space module
EAG.4484 Mustard (Scheme 15) 5S, 5E (4 rocket, 1 turbojet) space module
 

ursrius

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Can anyone identify the following BAC Warton projects from the mid/late 60's (preferably with reference source):
P.48
P.50
P.52
P.56
P.58

... and a couple of BAC Weybridge projects from the early 60's:
Type 580
Type 592
 

hesham

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Hi,

here is some BAC variants;

BAC P.60 F1: Project of a two-seat basic training aircraft with fixed wings powered by an Adour
turbojet engine without afterburning; never built.
BAC P.60 F2: Project of two-seat close-support fixed-wing aircraft with advanced training capacity.
BAC P.60 V1: Project of two-seat basic and advanced training aircraft with variable geometry wings
that can be converted into fixed wings, powered by an Adour turbojet engine without afterburning;
never built.
BAC P.60 V2: Project of two-seat advanced training and ground attack aircraft,one jet and wing
with variable geometry.
BAC P.60 V3: Project of two-seater, single-jet, wing with variable geometry, directly derived from CAC /
BAC AA.107.

BAC P.61 F1: Project for advanced training aircraft and two-seater ground attack,powered one jet and
fixed wing.
BAC P.61 F2: Two-seat, single-engine, fixed-wing attack aircraft.
BAC P.61 F3: Single-seat bomber, single-jet and fixed-wing fighter project.
BAC P.61 V1: Project of advanced training and two-seater ground attack aircraft, single-jet, fitted with
variable geometry wings.
BAC P.61 V2: Project of advanced training aircraft and two-seater ground attack, single-jet, with variable
geometry wings.
BAC P.61 V3: Single-seat fighter-bomber project, single-jet, fitted with wings of variable geometry.

BAC P.66 / 1: Tactical ground attack and aerial reconnaissance aircraft project powered by a Rolls-Royce /
Turbomeca Adour RT.172 (Mk.151) without afterburner; never built.
BAC P.66 / 2: Tactical attack and ground reconnaissance aircraft powered by a Rolls-Royce / Turbomeca
Adour RT.172 (Mk.151) with afterburner; never built.
BAC P.66 / 3: Tactical ground attack and aerial reconnaissance aircraft project powered by a Turbo-Union
RB.199-34 with afterburner; never built.

BAC P.70: Initial version of BAC P.70.
BAC P.70 Twin-Boom: Project for an apparatus equipped with two tail beams, the study of which began
on January 21, 1972, never built.

 

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