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Beyond the One-Eleven - British Aircraft Corporation BAC 1-11 projects......

Caravellarella

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Dear Boys and Girls, here is an article describing the BAC X-Eleven "project" for a (then) new technology short-medium range jet airliner with CFM-56 engines. This "project" has a wider fuselage cross-section than the standard BAC 1-11. I believe this was the final attempt to make a stand-alone BAC airliner......

The article comes from the August 1977 issue of Air International......

Terry (Caravellarella)
 

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Caravellarella

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Dear Boys and Girls, here is an article describing the BAC 1-11-800 "project" for a short-medium range jet airliner with the (then) new CFM-56 engines. This "project" retains the standard BAC 1-11 fuselage cross-section. The wing has been stretched at the root with an insert in the same way that McDonnell-Douglas produced the MD-80 from the DC-9-50 or the same way that Boeing produced the 707-320/420 from the 707-120/220......

The article comes from the June 1975 issue of Air International......

Terry (Caravellarella)
 

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Caravellarella

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Dear Boys and Girls, here is an article describing the BAC 1-11-700 "project" for a short-medium range jet airliner with uprated, higher by-pass ratio Rolls-Royce Spey engines. This "project" is a simpler stretch of the BAC-1-11-500 series airframe......

The article comes from the June 1975 issue of Air International......

Terry (Caravellarella)
 

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LowObservable

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http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1977/1977%20-%201898.html

http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1977/1977%20-%201899.html

Interesting days... No twin-engine 7X7, everything to be powered by JT10D/CF6-32-class engines. And maybe a little more life to be eked out of the 737... ;D
 

JFC Fuller

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Is there any truth to the story that the orignal 1-11 would have been larger (longer fuselage) and thus had more seats than the one that eventually appeared as the first variant?
 

Caravellarella

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sealordlawrence said:
Is there any truth to the story that the orignal 1-11 would have been larger (longer fuselage) and thus had more seats than the one that eventually appeared as the first variant?
I don't think so sealordlawrence, but then it is before I was born so I don't know for sure. The opposite is more likely in that the BAC 1-11 was derived from the smaller Hunting H-107 "project" and it wasn't originally a BAC design......

Terry (Caravellarella)
 

JFC Fuller

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I have confirmed that the 1-11 was a Hunting 107 derivative (they briefly existed together as a sort of high low mix) but the wiki entry for the 1-11 claims it was then scaled down which is why the first production version was the series 200, the series 100 being the unbuilt larger original design?
 

Caravellarella

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sealordlawrence said:
I have confirmed that the 1-11 was a Hunting 107 derivative (they briefly existed together as a sort of high low mix) but the wiki entry for the 1-11 claims it was then scaled down which is why the first production version was the series 200, the series 100 being the unbuilt larger original design?
Thank you sealordlawrence; I'm sorry but I've never heard of a BAC 1-11-100 "project" so I can't confirm (but then again I try not to put too much creedence in wikipedia entries)......

To get back to the topic of post-BAC 1-11 derivative "projects"; here is a drawing of the 1966 "project" for a Rolls-Royce Conway-powered BAC Super One-Eleven with an all-new six-abreast fuselage cross-section. This was an interim stage between BAC's previous short-haul VC10 "projects" and the BAC 2-11 "project" of September 1967......

Perhaps the predecessor/ancestor "projects" of the BAC 1-11 deserve their own specific topic......

Terry (Caravellarella)
 

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Caravellarella

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Stargazer2006 said:
As there doesn't seem to be a topic devoted to the genesis of the One-Eleven, here is the story of how the One-Eleven came about as told in a very interesting Flight International article dated Aug 10, 1961. Forgive me for being off-topic, and if there is a place more appropriate than this I will gladly recreate my post there...
Stéphane, I think you should start a shiny new topic called something like "Towards the One-Eleven - Hunting Aircraft & BAC projects" and put your article there ;D

Terry (Caravellarella)
 

Stargazer2006

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You won't sue me for copyright infringement or anything?
Promise, I will not start by "Dear Boys and Girls" and not put "projects" in quotes... Oops, just did! LOL
 

JFC Fuller

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Was the Super One-eleven one of the design studies prior to the One-eleven series 500? I ask because of the use of the word 'original' in that attachment and also because I have seen the term Super One-Eleven used to describe (as a promotional name) the One-Eleven 500.
 

Caravellarella

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sealordlawrence said:
Was the Super One-eleven one of the design studies prior to the One-eleven series 500? I ask because of the use of the word 'original' in that attachment and also because I have seen the term Super One-Eleven used to describe (as a promotional name) the One-Eleven 500.
Dear sealordlawrence, as far as I can tell, the BAC-1-11-500 and Super One-Eleven are contemporaries. The BAC 1-11-500 was developed for BEA in response to Government refusal in August 1966 to allow BEA to import 25 Boeing 737s; 18 BAC 1-11-500s were ordered instead......

Terry (Caravellarella)
 

Caravellarella

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Stargazer2006 said:
You won't sue me for copyright infringement or anything?
Promise, I will not start by "Dear Boys and Girls" and not put "projects" in quotes... Oops, just did! LOL
LOL! ::)
 

Caravellarella

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Dear Boys and Girls, slightly off-topic; here is a picture with a caption in French for a NGTE VTOL "project" to fit a stoppable hot-cycle rotor to a BAC 1-11 airframe......

The picture comes from the 1st October 1966 issue of Aviation Magazine International......

Terry (Caravellarella)
 

JFC Fuller

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Now lets not forget the 2-11 and 3-11!
 

Caravellarella

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sealordlawrence said:
Now lets not forget the 2-11 and 3-11!
Thank you sealordlawrence. I'm not convinced the BAC 2-11 can really be considered a BAC 1-11 "project" or derivative. Apart from using the BAC 1-11-500 cockpit, it seems to have been an all-new design with no other commonality with the BAC 1-11. In addition, I've found the BAC 2-11 to be very poorly documented; almost as if it wasn't a 'real' "project". The BAC 2-11 appears to coincide with BEA's first attempt to import 35 Boeing 727-200s, which was refused by the Government's exchequer in August 1966......

I believe the BAC 3-11 is a different creature altogether and cannot be considered a BAC 1-11 "project" or derivative. It is covered (in an odd manner) elsewhere in this forum http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,4457.msg35350.html#msg35350 where the BAC 3-11 is weirdly presented as the ancestor/progenitor of the Airbus A300B (which it obviously isn't)......

This is all I have on the BAC 2-11 "project"; an article in French from the 15th September 1967 issue of Aviation Magazine International......

Terry (Caravellarella)
 

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"Now lets not forget the 2-11 and 3-11!"

I've been trying to do that for a long time....
 

Caravellarella

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LowObservable said:
"Now lets not forget the 2-11 and 3-11!"

I've been trying to do that for a long time....
Haven't we all? Apart from Mr Freschi ;D
 

JFC Fuller

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Did those designs really have such a disturbing effect on you?
 

Caravellarella

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sealordlawrence said:
Did those designs really have such a disturbing effect on you?
Not the designs, just the premise presented ::)......
 

Caravellarella

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Dear Boys and Girls, here is a short piece describing a BAC 1-11-600 "project" proposed to British Airways. The BAC 1-11-600 would have been a BAC 1-11-500 updated with features from the BAC 1-11-670 prototype......

The piece comes from the March 1978 issue of Air International......

Terry (Caravellarella)
 

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JFC Fuller

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Proposed late variant 1-11 engines:

Spey 67: http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1973/1973%20-%201916.html

RB.213: http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1968/1968%20-%200024.html
 

Wyvern

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Sorry for reviving an old thread.

So with the BAC 1-11-600, BAC was, in essence, updating the BAC 1-11. Was this an equivalent to McDonnell Douglas updating the DC-9 to become the MD-80, or was it more extensive.

Regards,

Wyvern
 
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