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Beyond the One-Eleven - British Aircraft Corporation BAC 1-11 projects......

Caravellarella

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Dear Boys and Girls, here is an article describing the BAC X-Eleven "project" for a (then) new technology short-medium range jet airliner with CFM-56 engines. This "project" has a wider fuselage cross-section than the standard BAC 1-11. I believe this was the final attempt to make a stand-alone BAC airliner......

The article comes from the August 1977 issue of Air International......

Terry (Caravellarella)
 

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Caravellarella

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Dear Boys and Girls, here is an article describing the BAC 1-11-800 "project" for a short-medium range jet airliner with the (then) new CFM-56 engines. This "project" retains the standard BAC 1-11 fuselage cross-section. The wing has been stretched at the root with an insert in the same way that McDonnell-Douglas produced the MD-80 from the DC-9-50 or the same way that Boeing produced the 707-320/420 from the 707-120/220......

The article comes from the June 1975 issue of Air International......

Terry (Caravellarella)
 

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Caravellarella

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Dear Boys and Girls, here is an article describing the BAC 1-11-700 "project" for a short-medium range jet airliner with uprated, higher by-pass ratio Rolls-Royce Spey engines. This "project" is a simpler stretch of the BAC-1-11-500 series airframe......

The article comes from the June 1975 issue of Air International......

Terry (Caravellarella)
 

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LowObservable

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http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1977/1977%20-%201898.html

http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1977/1977%20-%201899.html

Interesting days... No twin-engine 7X7, everything to be powered by JT10D/CF6-32-class engines. And maybe a little more life to be eked out of the 737... ;D
 

JFC Fuller

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Is there any truth to the story that the orignal 1-11 would have been larger (longer fuselage) and thus had more seats than the one that eventually appeared as the first variant?
 

Caravellarella

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sealordlawrence said:
Is there any truth to the story that the orignal 1-11 would have been larger (longer fuselage) and thus had more seats than the one that eventually appeared as the first variant?
I don't think so sealordlawrence, but then it is before I was born so I don't know for sure. The opposite is more likely in that the BAC 1-11 was derived from the smaller Hunting H-107 "project" and it wasn't originally a BAC design......

Terry (Caravellarella)
 

JFC Fuller

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I have confirmed that the 1-11 was a Hunting 107 derivative (they briefly existed together as a sort of high low mix) but the wiki entry for the 1-11 claims it was then scaled down which is why the first production version was the series 200, the series 100 being the unbuilt larger original design?
 

Caravellarella

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sealordlawrence said:
I have confirmed that the 1-11 was a Hunting 107 derivative (they briefly existed together as a sort of high low mix) but the wiki entry for the 1-11 claims it was then scaled down which is why the first production version was the series 200, the series 100 being the unbuilt larger original design?
Thank you sealordlawrence; I'm sorry but I've never heard of a BAC 1-11-100 "project" so I can't confirm (but then again I try not to put too much creedence in wikipedia entries)......

To get back to the topic of post-BAC 1-11 derivative "projects"; here is a drawing of the 1966 "project" for a Rolls-Royce Conway-powered BAC Super One-Eleven with an all-new six-abreast fuselage cross-section. This was an interim stage between BAC's previous short-haul VC10 "projects" and the BAC 2-11 "project" of September 1967......

Perhaps the predecessor/ancestor "projects" of the BAC 1-11 deserve their own specific topic......

Terry (Caravellarella)
 

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Caravellarella

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Stargazer2006 said:
As there doesn't seem to be a topic devoted to the genesis of the One-Eleven, here is the story of how the One-Eleven came about as told in a very interesting Flight International article dated Aug 10, 1961. Forgive me for being off-topic, and if there is a place more appropriate than this I will gladly recreate my post there...
Stéphane, I think you should start a shiny new topic called something like "Towards the One-Eleven - Hunting Aircraft & BAC projects" and put your article there ;D

Terry (Caravellarella)
 

Stargazer2006

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You won't sue me for copyright infringement or anything?
Promise, I will not start by "Dear Boys and Girls" and not put "projects" in quotes... Oops, just did! LOL
 

JFC Fuller

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Was the Super One-eleven one of the design studies prior to the One-eleven series 500? I ask because of the use of the word 'original' in that attachment and also because I have seen the term Super One-Eleven used to describe (as a promotional name) the One-Eleven 500.
 

Caravellarella

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sealordlawrence said:
Was the Super One-eleven one of the design studies prior to the One-eleven series 500? I ask because of the use of the word 'original' in that attachment and also because I have seen the term Super One-Eleven used to describe (as a promotional name) the One-Eleven 500.
Dear sealordlawrence, as far as I can tell, the BAC-1-11-500 and Super One-Eleven are contemporaries. The BAC 1-11-500 was developed for BEA in response to Government refusal in August 1966 to allow BEA to import 25 Boeing 737s; 18 BAC 1-11-500s were ordered instead......

Terry (Caravellarella)
 

Caravellarella

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Stargazer2006 said:
You won't sue me for copyright infringement or anything?
Promise, I will not start by "Dear Boys and Girls" and not put "projects" in quotes... Oops, just did! LOL
LOL! ::)
 

Caravellarella

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Dear Boys and Girls, slightly off-topic; here is a picture with a caption in French for a NGTE VTOL "project" to fit a stoppable hot-cycle rotor to a BAC 1-11 airframe......

The picture comes from the 1st October 1966 issue of Aviation Magazine International......

Terry (Caravellarella)
 

JFC Fuller

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Now lets not forget the 2-11 and 3-11!
 

Caravellarella

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sealordlawrence said:
Now lets not forget the 2-11 and 3-11!
Thank you sealordlawrence. I'm not convinced the BAC 2-11 can really be considered a BAC 1-11 "project" or derivative. Apart from using the BAC 1-11-500 cockpit, it seems to have been an all-new design with no other commonality with the BAC 1-11. In addition, I've found the BAC 2-11 to be very poorly documented; almost as if it wasn't a 'real' "project". The BAC 2-11 appears to coincide with BEA's first attempt to import 35 Boeing 727-200s, which was refused by the Government's exchequer in August 1966......

I believe the BAC 3-11 is a different creature altogether and cannot be considered a BAC 1-11 "project" or derivative. It is covered (in an odd manner) elsewhere in this forum http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,4457.msg35350.html#msg35350 where the BAC 3-11 is weirdly presented as the ancestor/progenitor of the Airbus A300B (which it obviously isn't)......

This is all I have on the BAC 2-11 "project"; an article in French from the 15th September 1967 issue of Aviation Magazine International......

Terry (Caravellarella)
 

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"Now lets not forget the 2-11 and 3-11!"

I've been trying to do that for a long time....
 

Caravellarella

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LowObservable said:
"Now lets not forget the 2-11 and 3-11!"

I've been trying to do that for a long time....
Haven't we all? Apart from Mr Freschi ;D
 

JFC Fuller

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Did those designs really have such a disturbing effect on you?
 

Caravellarella

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sealordlawrence said:
Did those designs really have such a disturbing effect on you?
Not the designs, just the premise presented ::)......
 

Caravellarella

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Dear Boys and Girls, here is a short piece describing a BAC 1-11-600 "project" proposed to British Airways. The BAC 1-11-600 would have been a BAC 1-11-500 updated with features from the BAC 1-11-670 prototype......

The piece comes from the March 1978 issue of Air International......

Terry (Caravellarella)
 

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JFC Fuller

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Proposed late variant 1-11 engines:

Spey 67: http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1973/1973%20-%201916.html

RB.213: http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1968/1968%20-%200024.html
 

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Sorry for reviving an old thread.

So with the BAC 1-11-600, BAC was, in essence, updating the BAC 1-11. Was this an equivalent to McDonnell Douglas updating the DC-9 to become the MD-80, or was it more extensive.

Regards,

Wyvern
 

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And here is the Maritime Reconnaissance design that was being shopped to the JSDF (for the MSDF PXL requirement in this case) alongside it, and from which it probably was derived, the BAC 1-11 400 (h/t Zebedee):

Heres a couple of good ones from Stephen Skinners book "BAC One -Eleven, The Whole Story"

The first is a 1-11 400 for the Japanese self defense force, with a new wing, extra wing mounted Adour engines, enlarged nose radar, towed mad bird and weapons bay.
 
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