Various US Reusable Launch Vehicles (RLV) Projects

Archibald said:
The thread title is hopeless... "Reusable Launch Vehicle concepts" would be better.

Space Shuttle is strictly ...
Click to expand...
That brings to mind a thing about this English language, and language generally, words move, they change spellings, shift meanings, sometimes even reverse meanings. This English language has a many centuries history of specific terms becoming generalized.
For instance, the words meat, bread, fruit, have each had a term of being employed to mean food generally.

Space Shuttle, space shuttle, is now living that evolution.

Space shuttle is no longer strictly The Space Shuttle.
English language users are adopting it as the general term for a concept.
The language will do what its users do with it and there is no stopping such change, such evolution.

Related reading:
The books Words on the Move, and, Word on the Street, by the linguist John McWhorter.
The books discuss this phenomenon and others at length with many examples.
I believe comment is also made within them that while such change is happening in real time, some people will express their protests regarding said change via the certain irony of employing words which went through their own evolutions in prior decades or centuries.
 
Or maybe it is just a case of "Space Shuttle" vs "space shuttle". The second one however is rarely used. For example, if you browse "reusable rockets" on Google Scholar, the nomenclature is
- Reusable Launch Vehicles (RLV)
- Single Stage To Orbit (SSTO)
- Two Stage To Orbit (TSTO).

I think the media (as usual) is at the root of the confusion... because of the X-37. Admittedly, the X-37 has a "Shuttle orbiter shape". So many medias are calling it "the X-37 shuttle."
DreamChaser is also a victim of that siliness. Because its manned variant (on the backburner) was the one CCDEV vehicle that was winged - just like the Shuttle: unlike Dragon 2 or Starliner.

But outside Dreamchaser and X-37, nobody call RLV or SSTO "space shuttles". It's ridiculous.

And I'm know what I'm talking about: I've browsed and downloaded RLV stuff (Pdf and links) since 2002 and I have a few thousands documents.
 
Last edited:
Last edited:
Archibald said:
Icthink the media (as usual) is at the root of the confusion... because of the X-37. Admittedly, the X-37 has a "Shuttle orbiter shape". So many medias are calling it "the X-37 shuttle."
DreamChaser is also a victim of that siliness. Because its manned variant (on the backburner) was the one CCDEV vehicle that was winged - just like the Shuttle: unlike Dragon 2 or Starliner.

But outside Dreamchaser and X-37, nobody call RLV or SSTO "space shuttles". It's ridiculous.
Click to expand...
Exactly. Dreamchaser and X-37 are just winged spacecraft. The Space Shuttle was a first and foremost a launch vehicle. And it had a reusable upperstage/fairing that could carry crew and return the main engines.
Nobody called DynaSoar a space shuttle.
 
Archibald said:
Or maybe it is just a case of "Space Shuttle" vs "space shuttle". The second one however is rarely used. For example, if you browse "reusable rockets" on Google Scholar, the nomenclature is
- Reusable Launch Vehicles (RLV)
- Single Stage To Orbit (SSTO)
- Two Stage To Orbit (TSTO).
Click to expand...
Strictly speaking, both SSTO and TSTO can either be reusable or expendable.
 
When I think of RLVs, I usually think of concepts from the 1990s.

Falcon 9 is a true RLV…yet I don’t think I have heard it called an RLV in popular literature…just “reusable.”

What I think of:

Gryphon
http://www.astronautix.com/g/gryphon.html
 
Last edited:
publiusr said:
When I think of RLVs, I usually think of concepts from the 1990s.

Falcon 9 is a true RLV…yet I don’t think I have heard it called an RLV in popular literature…just “reusable.”
Click to expand...
Because the second stage is not reusable.
 

Attachments

  • 41.jpg
    41.jpg
    31.1 KB · Views: 150
  • 42.jpg
    42.jpg
    34 KB · Views: 119
  • 43.jpg
    43.jpg
    37.5 KB · Views: 125
  • 44.jpg
    44.jpg
    83 KB · Views: 142
  • 45.jpg
    45.jpg
    41.5 KB · Views: 128
Some studies from a 1971 Lockheed report.
 

Attachments

  • Screenshot (10700).png
    Screenshot (10700).png
    985.8 KB · Views: 123
  • Screenshot (10681).png
    Screenshot (10681).png
    1.7 MB · Views: 120
  • Screenshot (10683).png
    Screenshot (10683).png
    2 MB · Views: 111
  • Screenshot (10690).png
    Screenshot (10690).png
    1.2 MB · Views: 112
  • Screenshot (10691).png
    Screenshot (10691).png
    1.2 MB · Views: 118
  • Screenshot (10696).png
    Screenshot (10696).png
    1.2 MB · Views: 114
  • Screenshot (10697).png
    Screenshot (10697).png
    1.8 MB · Views: 115
  • Screenshot (10699).png
    Screenshot (10699).png
    1.3 MB · Views: 137
FYI, another new stack of pictures showing the early development of Convair Space Shuttle were uploaded at the SDASM Flickr archive today. :cool:
Dear members and mods, please let me know, if this topic is the right one, or move this post to a more suitable topic.
 
Last edited:
fightingirish said:
FYI, another new stack of pictures showing the early development of Convair Space Shuttle were uploaded at the SDASM Flickr archive today. :cool:
Dear members and mods, please let me know, if this topic is the right one, or move this post to a more suitable topic.
Click to expand...

It's crazy to imagine so many of these pieces of art being in the same room at the same time, but of course they were. I'd love to try to bring them (and others) back together as an exhibit or something.
 

Attachments

  • Convair Shuttle Concept Art and Models from SDASM 18.jpg
    Convair Shuttle Concept Art and Models from SDASM 18.jpg
    74.9 KB · Views: 124
A good report.
 

Attachments

  • Airbreathing Launch Vehicle for Earth Orbit Shuttle-Performance and Operation.pdf
    1.3 MB · Views: 55
Would anyone be able to get me a proper scan of the North American Rockwell 1972 brochure 'Shuttle - the space transporter of the 1980's'?
 

Attachments

  • Shuttle 1972.png
    Shuttle 1972.png
    5.3 MB · Views: 133
Last edited by a moderator:

Attachments

  • Space_Shuttle_Transporter_of_1980s.pdf
    1.9 MB · Views: 35
lucspace said:
Cheers, but still looking for the other configuration drawing...
Click to expand...
The picture you posted is of the NAR Phase C proposal (circa May '72). I'd be surprised if they'd reuse the same title for a brochure which had already been used for their Phase B proposal (the one linked) ? Why did you request info on that specific title? (i.e. where did you get the title from?)
 

Similar threads

Back
Top Bottom