Zeppelin projects

[archipeppe]

Good point my dear Archipeppe,


specially those two designer developed in the same time.

Definitely, look at the fuselage's shape, the two bridges and - most of all - the wing plant design with the coupled engines.
The only exception is that in Brabazon the engines were tractor while in Zeppelin were pusher.

 

[hesham]

as they were from the same time,we can call it a telepathy.

 

[archipeppe]

as they were from the same time,we can call it a telepathy.

Indeed historically speaking we have other examples as for instance Concorde vs. Tupolev Tu-144...

 

[Jemiba]

For me the biggest difference:
The Brabazon was a low-wing, whereas the Zeppelin airliner a mid,wing aircraft and judging
the landing gear, designed for unprepared runways. Wing position and pusher props may have
been chosen for this reason, too, I think.

 

[sienar]

IIRC part of the reason the B-36 has pusher props was due to the thick wing. Pusher props may have been used here for similar reasons.

 

[hesham]

Hi,


here is the Zeppelin (Dornier) D.I early drawing (upper drawing).


Flugzeug Classic 6/2008

 

[Maveric]

The Zeppelin-SNCASO ZSO.523.

 

[Maveric]

...a 3view (Source; FlugRevue)

 

[Jemiba]

More about the ZSO 523 (including a translation of the FlugRevue article) here
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,517.msg3782.html#msg3782

 

[Maveric]

Sorry, I used the Search function without a result ???

 

[Stargazer]

More about the ZSO 523 (including a translation of the FlugRevue article) here
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,517.msg3782.html#msg3782

Obviously this poses a small problem since we have two distinct topics dealing with exactly the same project—and quite a lot of material on the subject in both. Perhaps a distinct ZSO 523 topic with links to it from both threads would somehow solve the problem?

 

[Jemiba]

I've added the posts about the Zeppelin airliner to this thread here, but let the ZSO 523
in the Me 321/323 thread http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,517.0.html) ,
as it was a direct derivative.

 

[fockewulf261]

Wasn't there a World War one monoplane fighter project? I think I saw something about it 25-30 years ago.

 

[hesham]

Wasn't there a World War one monoplane fighter project? I think I saw something about it 25-30 years ago.

Hi Fockewulf261,


I know only D.I,what was this fighter,and what was its designation ?.

 

[Tuizentfloot]

I'm eager to know more about that monoplane fighter project.

 

[richard]

I'm eager to know more about that monoplane fighter project.

Maybe this one ?


Patent 404406 , 28/12/1917 , from "Luftfahrt International Nov-Dec 1975" )

 

[Jemiba]

That's a Dornier design, that still was drawn, when Claude Dornier still was leader of a
department with the Zeppelin company ("Abteilung DO", http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,5488.msg183539.html#msg183539 ),
so, yes, a Zeppelin project.
But I doubt, that this one would have had a "D" designation, as D usually stould for biplane
("Doppeldecker")

 

[richard]

Wasn't there a World War one monoplane fighter project? I think I saw something about it 25-30 years ago.

The question was about a monoplane fighter , not a D. fighter

 

[Jemiba]

Correct, sorry, meant heshams question in #54.

 

[Tuizentfloot]

Interesting project. Thanks!

 

[Jemiba]

Some of the designs from the "Abteilung DO" (designed by Dornier) can be found here:
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,12923.msg225717.html#msg225717

 

[hesham]

Hi,

still no Info about ZSO 423 ?.

 

[sgeorges4]

I want to know,where the zeppelin rammer come from please ???

 

[Jemiba]

With regards to the book "Zeppelins Flieger", published by the Zeppelin museum in Ludwigshafen, a preliminary
draft of this design was discovered by Fritz Hahn (author of several books about German secret weapons) in the
library of the US congress in Washington. It was mentioned in the British report "German Aircraft", too, where it was
shown in three somewhat different shapes. And the above mentioned book says explicitely, that in all cases those
drawings are sketches to show the principle ideas, not exact design drawings.

 

[sgeorges4]

and where can I find this report please?

 

[Antonio]

Description and drawings also here:

Axis Suicide Squads by Justo Miranda
Pages 106 to 109

https://www.amazon.com/Justo-Miranda/e/B00C7BEY70/ref=dp_byline_cont_book_1

 

[Justo Miranda]

Tintin style drawing!

 

[sgeorges4]

With regards to the book "Zeppelins Flieger", published by the Zeppelin museum in Ludwigshafen, a preliminary
draft of this design was discovered by Fritz Hahn (author of several books about German secret weapons) in the
library of the US congress in Washington. It was mentioned in the British report "German Aircraft", too, where it was
shown in three somewhat different shapes. And the above mentioned book says explicitely, that in all cases those
drawings are sketches to show the principle ideas, not exact design drawings.

Just want to know the date ofp ublication of this report,please(If you have it off course!).

 

[hesham]

From L'Annee Aeronautique 1920,

why the called it E4250 instead off E4/20 ?.

 

[Jemiba]

With regards to "ZEPPELINS FLIEGER", published by the Zeppelin Museum Friedrichshafen, this and some other, similar, but
unconfirmed designations were used in contemporary publications. Mostly it was labelled as "1.000 PS Flugzeug" (aircraft
with 1000 hp), so "E4250" could have been an acronym for "engines: 4 with 250 hp", as a misinterpretation of the more common
and now standard "E.4/20", though the origin of the latter isn't quite clear either. "Entwurf 4, 1920" ? The mentioned source
gives no explanation, though it may be one with the best connections to source material. With the destruction of this type,
quite a lot of documentation may have been lost, too.

 

[blackkite]

Zeppelin-Staaken E4/20 passenger aircraft.
Designed in 1917 by Adolf Rohrbach, the Zeppelin-Staaken E4/20 was a stressed metal monocoque fuselage canatlevered monoplane four-engined passenger aircraft with galley, w.c., baggage stowage and full communications. The most advanced aircraft of its time, the E.4/20 flew successfully in 1920. Completed after the armisitice and extensively tested by the Allies who ordered it destroyed because of its potential as a bomber - it was faster than any Allied fighter of the day. It was dismantled in 1922.
Wingspan : 31.00, Length : 16.50m, Height : 4.50m, Wing area : 106.0m2
Mass : empty 6072kg, Normal takeoff 8500kg
Engine Type : 4 DD Maybach Mb.IVa, Power : 4 x 245hp
Top speed : 225km/h, Cruise speed : 200km/h
Practical range : 1200km, Crew : attendees 3-5, Payload : 12-18 passengers

Уголок неба ¦ Zeppelin-Staaken E-4/20

 

[blackkite]

The E4/20 included numerous innovations, including its all-metal monocoque construction, onboard facilities such as lavatory, kitchen and radio communications,
as well as its notable and sturdy monoplane load-bearing box-girder wing constructed of dural metal which formed both the wing's main girder and the structure of the wing itself.
Skinned with thin sheets of dural metal to give the aerofoil shape necessary for a wing, the girder section wing had fabric covered leading and trailing edges attached to it.
This superb and innovative wing was robust and self-supporting.



Initial shape was open cockpit. Later fully enclosed pilot's cabin with Cellon windows was installed.

 

[blackkite]

Hi! Staaken R.Ⅴ.
In 1916, Zeppelin moved development of large bombers to Staaken, Germany. The R.V was co-developed alongside the R.Ⅵ and R.VII. The R.V had two engine pods, each with two engines paired in tandem, driving single propellers through clutches, gearboxes and shafts. An additional tractor engine was also fitted in the nose of the fuselage. The pods were large enough for some inflight maintenance. The Model R.Ⅵ was selected for production, rather than the R.V, because the geared and clutched engines posed a higher developmental risk.

The machine was finished in June 1916, but was adopted by Idflieg only in September of the following year. She was assigned the serial number R.13/15.
And on December 23, the R.V. bomber was transferred to Rfa 501, located in Ghent.

The aircraft made its first combat flight on January 25, 1918, having bombed at port facilities in Calais. Within eight months, she was able to make only 16 night flights due to regular breakdowns and malfunctions. In October 1918, after returning to Germany, the plane crashed while landing in the fog.

Wingspan : 42.20m, Length : 23.00m, Height : 6.80m,
Wing area : 332.00m2, Empty weight : 9450kg, Take off weight : 13010kg
Engine Type : 5 DD Maybach Mb.Ⅳa, Power : 5 x 245hp
Top speed : 135km/h, Cruise speed : 120km/h
Ceiling : 4500m
Crew, attendees : 7
Weapons : five 7.92 mm Parabellum machine guns
Maximum bomb load : 1,800 kg at short range. Standard load : 1200 kg

Уголок неба ¦ Zeppelin-Staaken R.V

Bottom picture shows two blade nose propeller, but three side view drawing shows four blade nose propeller. Nose four blade propeller is apparently mistake. Only one engine drive front propeller.

 

[blackkite]

Hi! R.Ⅶ is almost same as R.Ⅳ, most complicated design. R.Ⅴ had most effective armament for fighter attack countermeasure.

 

[blackkite]

Hi! Staaken R.Ⅳ.

Zeppelin-Staaken VGO.III / R.IV / R.VII

Built at Staaken after production moved from VGO, the R.IV although generally similar to the V.G.O.III, retained the paired 160 hp (120 kW) Mercedes D.III engines in the nose, but was fitted with paired 220 hp (160 kW) Benz Bz.Ⅳengines in each of the twin engine nacelles, each pair driving single four-bladed pusher propellers. The sole R.IV serialled 'R 12/15' carried out operations on both the eastern and western fronts. One built, and the only "nose-engined" Zeppelin-Staaken R-plane to survive to the end of the war.

Zeppelin-Staaken Riesenflugzeuge - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Zeppelin-Staaken VGO.III / R.IV / R.VII

 

[hesham]

We should speak about unknown or little known Prototypes or generally Projects,

so has anyone a more Info or drawing for Zeppelin 8307 Project ?.

 

[nuuumannn]

Some images relating to Zeppelin Straaken projects as covered in this thread. This is a model of the Zeppelin Staaken E4/20 and a mock up of its wing and engine installation on display at the Deutsches Technikmuseum in Berlin.

Staaken

Engine

This is a model of a Zeppelin Staaken R VI bomber on display at the formerly named Luftwaffen Museum at Gatow.

Zeppelin R VI

The following images were taken at the location of Staaken airfield, where these remarkable aircraft were built. This is the remains of the Zeppelin administration building. It's an empty shell surrounded by bushes and I sought permission to get this image as the site is currently being used by Netflix as a film set, hence the wrecked cars.

Europe 368

The remains of the runways are covered in a solar panel farm.

Europe 369

The Staaken watch tower. Attached to this was a giant hangar. The airfield site is now an industrial park complete with a McDonalds, where my friend and I had lunch!

Europe 371

 

[Jemiba]

... so has anyone a more Info or drawing for Zeppelin 8307 Project ?.

Careful please, there is no mention of "Zeppelin 8307" (not even of Zeppelin at all) but of "Marine Nr. 8307" (Navy number 8307).
The Deutsche Kriegsmarine (German Navy) had its very own numbering system and the fact, that the mentioned aircraft got a Navy number,
is a strong evidence, that it actually wasn't just a project, but rather an already built type, maybe a Staaken R.XVI, as mentioned in that snippet,
which BTW is from Putnams "The German Giants".

 

[PMN1]

Did the Commercial airliner design ever get a number?

 

[Grey Havoc]

Regarding the Zeppelin-Staaken E-4/20:

Zeppelin-Staaken E-4/20: Human Genius and Stupidity.

Designed by the genial Adolf Rohrbach and built by the famous Zeppelin-Staaken works, the peerless E-4/20 was the first all-metal cantilever four-engined airliner ever built. First flown only seven…

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