Kriegsmarine - KM Ship Plans/Discussion

[LouisXIIIb]

Oh i didn’t see that there was a réorganisation. Anyway I love that page. I Hope the problem will found a solution !!

 

[Nick Sumner]

Information about O-39 and beyond (not the best quality but it still works)View attachment 764855

O42 is a monster. Puts me in mind of KW45 and KW50.

 

[alexi]

O42 is a monster. Puts me in mind of KW45 and KW50.

You could imagine a beefed up O-class hull to H-39 size with 15" guns.

 

[Nick Sumner]

You could imagine a beefed up O-class hull to H-39 size with 15" guns.

In essence, that's what KW45 and KW50 were.

 

[alexi]

In essence, that's what KW45 and KW50 were.

I would say different, both O-42 and H-39 are roughly on the same sizes (hence what i mean, imagine a H-39 hull with 15" guns and slightly faster), while KW45 and KW50 are complete different beasts.
Here's their specs (show their standard, full and deep load displacements and maximum speed):

 

[Remphy]

What happened to the drive folder that had the plans?

 

[Tzoli]

The Battlecruiser Design O 39 as looked like in late 1941:

https://www.deviantart.com/tzoli/art/1207173986

 

[Tzoli]

Does the German archives have drawings only on Kriegsmarine ships or does it contains plans of the Reichsmarine eg the Weimar Republic Navy and/or the Kaiserliche Marine, the WW1 and pre-WW1 German Navy?

 

[00-PureEvil-00]

Does the German archives have drawings only on Kriegsmarine ships or does it contains plans of the Reichsmarine eg the Weimar Republic Navy and/or the Kaiserliche Marine, the WW1 and pre-WW1 German Navy?

Well, when Sarcasticat's Google Disc was still alive, it even had a separate folder for Kaiserliche Marine documents, including drawings. And, IIRC, there were some drawings related to early Panzeschiff development and stuff like twin 150mm turrets intended for  Emden (1925 one).
So the answer is definitely "yes".

 

[alexi]

Does the German archives have drawings only on Kriegsmarine ships or does it contains plans of the Reichsmarine eg the Weimar Republic Navy and/or the Kaiserliche Marine, the WW1 and pre-WW1 German Navy?

Yes the archives contained all ships from Imperial-era (their sections currently the most digitalized compare other two and still updating), to Reichsmarine and Kriegsmarine-era but there are also several documents, plans of foreigner ships through naval attaché (for example: one journal log inspections on Tegetthoff-class 305mm three-gun turret with data and plan by Germans), copy of the plans or few captured plans of French and Dutch warships during invasions.

 

[alexi]

stuff like twin 150mm turrets intended for  Emden (1925 one)

Seems to be the other way around, the twin 15cm mounts was intended for "Ersatz Falke", SMS Breslau's provisional name, a member of Magdeburg-class light cruiser according to the plan descriptions, but since she was sunk and SMS Strassburg the sole survivor of the class seems very likely going to receive this modifications, linking to the Germans plan to put her into Reichsmarine services (15cm turret proposal dated March 8, Strassburg was stricken from navy list on March 17 as war-prize replacement).

 

[Vepr157]

A general question: does anyone know how one goes about requesting the digitization of a particular drawing that's listed in the Bundesarchiv catalog? At the U.S. National Archives you can simply send them an email and they will send you a digitized drawing if it's feasible (sometime it's not due to the condition of the drawing). Has anyone had experience doing a similar request with the Bundesarchiv?

 

[SaskJack]

Here is a breakdown of drawings available for download at the Bundesarchiv. I resently checked to see if there are any new drawings. If anyone knows of a mistake, or they add new drawings please let me know.

 

[SaskJack]

I have a complete list of all the drawings for each of the 48 subfolders listed above. These ones are for RM25 1.2.25 Panzerschiffe. In the column Achive number if it is yellow, it is available for download. In the last 3 columns, if there is a 1 it is available for download. In the last 2 columns, it is the page of the PDF list that is downloadable. I have all of this on an excel sheet, but have to convert to jpg file to post.

I will try and post more as time allows. Enjoy

 

[SaskJack]

The drawings for Heavy Cruisers RM25 1.2.30

 

[The Archivist]

Hey guys,

I stumbled across this drawing called Germany, Hansadampfer C – Project 1942. Looks like some kind of German carrier conversion based on a Hansadampfer hull.

I’m wondering was this an actual project the Kriegsmarine looked into, or just a what-if design? I know they had plans for converting liners (Europa, Potsdam/Gneisenau into the Jade-class) and the whole Flugdeckkreuzer thing, but I’ve never seen anything about a Hansadampfer carrier. Does anyone have any schematics or drawings of this design?

 

[drwells42]

Hey guys,

I stumbled across this drawing called Germany, Hansadampfer C – Project 1942. Looks like some kind of German carrier conversion based on a Hansadampfer hull.





I’m wondering was this an actual project the Kriegsmarine looked into, or just a what-if design? I know they had plans for converting liners (Europa, Potsdam/Gneisenau into the Jade-class) and the whole Flugdeckkreuzer thing, but I’ve never seen anything about a Hansadampfer carrier. Does anyone have any schematics or drawings of this design?

Yes, they actually looked into this, but I don't think that they looked at too hard. 9000 tons, 143 meters LOA. There are actual drawings for this, but my copy of the "official" drawing is rather big. Here's a less official version. As nearly as I can tell, it's relatively accurate.

Hadeler wrote: "The attempt to convert one of the 9,000-ton Hansa steamers, a merchant ship of the war program (Figure 10), may be seen as a parallel to the first Allies' escort carriers. It was almost more utopian than most of the other projects presented in this work."
(translated)

DRW

 

[AndyKru]

Something new about MFP.

 

[Jemiba]

The MFP, „Marine Fährprahm“ (Navy ferry barge) perhaps was the best development, that had its roots in the „Operation Seelöwe“. They were tough and sturdy, and used in a huge number of roles, that were never anticipated, when they were designed. And in some few cases, they were actually even used in amphibious operations, I think.
But with a cruising speed of just over 7 knots, and a max. speed of about 10.5 knots, I wouldn’t use the term „high speed“ for them .

 

[AndyKru]

The MFP, „Marine Fährprahm“ (Navy ferry barge) perhaps was the best development, that had its roots in the „Operation Seelöwe“. They were tough and sturdy, and used in a huge number of roles, that were never anticipated, when they were designed. And in some few cases, they were actually even used in amphibious operations, I think.
But with a cruising speed of just over 7 knots, and a max. speed of about 10.5 knots, I wouldn’t use the term „high speed“ for them .

I agree - Self-propelled landing barge is more correct.

 

[Smaug-A10]

I've noticed that in their drawings and images many of the larger planned KMS ships have this fully enclosed twin 105mm turret. Was it an actual planned upgrade over the Dop. L. C37 mount and if so are there any actual drawings of it?

 

[Wurger]

I've noticed that in their drawings and images many of the larger planned KMS ships have this fully enclosed twin 105mm turret. Was it an actual planned upgrade over the Dop. L. C37 mount and if so are there any actual drawings of it?

That`s the Drh LC/38 twin turret mounting, had full electric Remote Power Control, integral hoists in short or long trunk versions. Elevation was +80º to -8º. Data taken from Campbell`s "Naval Weapons of World War Two".

 

[Tzoli]

Yes there are drawings

 

[Smaug-A10]

Yes there are drawings

Do you know where i could find them? Googles not been much help.
Also was it ever actually fitted to any ships?

 

[Tzoli]

Not fitted but intended for the O class, will post my materials later, in the mean time you can find it on my drawing:

https://www.deviantart.com/tzoli/art/Design-O-39-1941-1207173986

 

[Tzoli]

This might help:

 

[The Archivist]

Is it still possible to access the documents in the Google Drives that were posted at the beginning of this thread, or have they been removed permanently?

 

[alexi]

Here's armor plans for alternative H-class, the mixed diesel and turbine propulsions know as "Entwurf A" and "Entwurf B", they also come with alternative sloped armor on the top left corner.

 

[wos]

ALCON,

Probably should add this here for those interested in the full-sized plans. If you intend to download them, I HIGHLY suggest you have some good internet. Included you will also find RM 25/256, full plans for Weser I. (The heavy cruiser Seydlitz conversion).

Germany - Google Drive

drive.google.com

This link will be put in the OP.
I plan to make this thread a hub for all future plans I intend to share.
There are others I currently have from BDA but are not yet uploaded. I'll upload them when I can.

May I ask if you have any will and chance to share your great collection once more? Sadly my archive got lost and I lack some of the material you used to share.

 

[TacoMensch]

The plans and here, in their entirety:

German Ship Plans - SARCASTICAT - Google Drive

drive.google.com

Any questions, just ask.

Any chance you have a backup link? This one is dead

 

[moin1900]

U-Boat Explosive Carrier
Meeting with the ObdM Oberbefehlshaber der Kriegsmarine on June 8, 1944
The Admiral der Kleinkampfverbände AdK has made preparations to potentially deploy Italian MAS boats as explosive boats carrying very large explosive charges. A similar approach would also be conceivable for submarines that are no longer suitable for frontline service and which, with a crew of just a few, could destroy a port or all surrounding ships.

Source: Bundesarchiv
Signatur: RM 7/1258, Page: 120

 

[Vepr157]

U-Boat Explosive Carrier
Meeting with the ObdM Oberbefehlshaber der Kriegsmarine on June 8, 1944
The Admiral der Kleinkampfverbände AdK has made preparations to potentially deploy Italian MAS boats as explosive boats carrying very large explosive charges. A similar approach would also be conceivable for submarines that are no longer suitable for frontline service and which, with a crew of just a few, could destroy a port or all surrounding ships.

Source: Bundesarchiv
Signatur: RM 7/1258, Page: 120

Are you going to include a link?

 

[Wurger]

The "Artilleriefährprahm" turned into a monitors, in a January 1944 proposal, approved by Hitler. Probably more armoured than the AF type (first version), it would have two 105mm cannons, and destined to the Danube and the Black Sea. If it was to be based on the AF Typ A-C (second version), with a boat-like bow, it would look fantastic. Taken from BA/MA`s RM 7/1221.

 

[Wurger]

A "Hafen-Torpedoboot" project from 1939-1940. Not as sexy as a battleship, and not very useful, IMHO. From BA/MA`s RM 7/1220.

 

[Wurger]

Never seen this one before: a 1938 Ad, with 6x15cm L/48 TK in three turrets. The 1938 Ac, with the same main armament, was referenced in "Z-Vor", without line drawing, by Harald Fock.

 

[Wurger]

Two line drawings of different "Späkreuzer" projects.

 

[_Sarcasticat_]

I'll step in for a moment to clarify, because I feel that I must.

@Wurger That is a very early version of Flottentorpedoboot 1939, with 12.7cm guns. The number of guns eventually reached 4 before a DP capability requirement forced the guns to 4x1 10.5cm SK C/32.

Type 1938A/Ad is a variant of A/Ac that was slightly larger and had a Flakvierling between the torpedo tubes. A newer Groner book has a drawing of it and it is listed in some sources, but is otherwise unknown by most people.

The last is some of the very earliest Spahkreuzer 1938 drawings, supposedly from Blohm and Voss according to Breyer. The arrangement with the 8.8cm between the torpedo tubes is the only new information.

 

[Creative]

Never seen this one before: a 1938 Ad, with 6x15cm L/48 TK in three turrets. The 1938 Ac, with the same main armament, was referenced in "Z-Vor", without line drawing, by Harald Fock.

That is one big Destroyer. Bigger than a Mogador.

 

[moin1900]

Are you going to include a link?

RM 7/1258 - Schiffstypen (Sturm- und Kleinkampfmittel) - 1943-1944
Link:

https://invenio.bundesarchiv.de/invenio/direktlink/0947ba5e-bee5-4bbb-964d-fbfafcec71df/