Harrier Projects (Future title)

Mike Pryce

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The next PTP I am writing, on Harrier Projects, is about 50% written.

It will feature some things already known about, but tell their full story, such as:

index.php


as well as revealing wholly new stories, such as the full saga of the Harrier III, the proposed Sea Harrier FRS.3 and some weird and wonderful variants, including the W-wing Harrier and the 'civil' Harrier:
index.php


Some more ideas can be found at http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,184.0.html & http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=6369.0

As with my P.1216 book, it will be based on interviews, archival research and many years of Harrier obsession, all illustrated with original artwork, model pictures and diagrams.

Thoughts welcome on what folk would like to see - there's masses of stuff and whittling it down to 48 pages involves hard decisions!
 

SteveO

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Yay! Thanks Mike, really looking forward to this one.

Never heard of a Sea Harrier FRS.3 proposal before, was this a big winged and re-engined FRS.2 or AV-8B+ ?
 

CJGibson

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Boo hoo! If only the AEW aircraft had such fans...

Looking at the back-end of this year for the next PTP, which should be "The Air Staff and AEW". The PTP team have been side-tracked onto another job.

Thanks to everyone who has supported our efforts. Any suggestions for improvements?

Chris
 

shedofdread

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If I may be so bold as to suggest that the drawings be reproduced at a slightly larger scale? Clearly the cost would rise somewhat but [for me at any rate] that would be, quite literally ;) , a 'price worth paying'. I do however appreciate that not everyone looks at these things and wonders "would it fly?" so maybe it's better generally to keep the cost down...

Regards,

S
 

overscan (PaulMM)

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Perhaps a ZIP of A4 resolution drawings could be offered as a download for verified purchasers of the books, somewhat like Scott is doing with his APR Blog?


I could host it for free, so there'd be no cost. Could have a ProjectTech Profiles sub-forum, even.


Regarding the different reception of the P.1216 book and AEW book, its early days still, but I think a quick look in any aviation bookshop will show a predominance of books on fighters. For many people, fighters are "sexier" than naval AEW aircraft. I think you'll find P.1121, AFVG or SR.177 volumes would be popular for instance.


I don't think its any reflection on the relative merits of the writing and presentation.
 

CJGibson

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Since we started the PTP, only five people have requested copies of the drawings, two of them are the usual suspects. I like nothing better than seeing my drawings turned into models, be they hard or soft. Even better when they form the subject of a two-page spread in a model mag!

I draw the masters at A3 and reduced so the big drawings are available already.

Chris
 

shedofdread

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Then ignore my concerns - you appear to have the issue more than covered :)

I see AFVG mentioned above, but is there any mileage in specifically Tornado material? Or is that still too current to be accessible?
 

Mike Pryce

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Tornado?! In a Harrier thread???!! :eek:

I've not researched Tornado, and currently the PTPs are written after me or Chris have spent a good few years looking into something. I have looked into AFVG, but can't see a book on that as there was not much work done on it.
 

shedofdread

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Thank heavens for the above post - I thought I'd commited some dreadful Tornado-based faux pas... ;)

There are a number of other (to me at any rate) interesting projects that I would love to read more about - P103 to name but one. It was a fascinating platform and would've been spectacular to see but whether there's enough material for a book though?

S
(I would've 'got my coat' earlier but the weather's warmed up a little...)
 

JFC Fuller

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I think there is scope for two very big volumes, the first taking the path to Tornado (AFVG through to Tornado and proposed projects of it) and another that does the same for what became Typhoon- just my musing though.
 

Mike Pryce

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Thank heavens for the above post - I thought I'd commited some dreadful Tornado-based faux pas...


Post SDSR (RAF choose Tornado over Harrier) some folk can't say the T word... ;D

But seriously, there are lots of ideas for books (although big volumes cost a packet and take forever) but I'd like to keep this thread to suggestions for the Harrier projects book. Maybe another thread can be started on 'book suggestions' - perhaps Damien Burke or someone who has done time in the Warton archives could do a
Tornado book?

P.103 is briefly looked at in my P.1216 book, and illustrated with the N1 version from 1985, although Roy Boot and Tony Buttler also covered its earlier incarnations. A fair amount of model and simulation work was done on it, but the obvious failure mode of one engine out, plus some issues of HGI (perversely pointing the intakes up was not a way to avoid HGI) scuppered it, plus Warton moving on to Eurofighter.
 

SteveO

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CJGibson said:
Boo hoo! If only the AEW aircraft had such fans...
You made the VC10 "sexy" (even the AEW versions) but you were up against it with carrier AEW ;)

As for ideas for the Harrier PTP, I'd really like to see more about all the tweaks proposed and developed to improve the Harrier's capabilities that never saw service. Things like LERX, LIDS, lengthened intakes, wingtip rails/extensions, RCS and if the VAAC control system was ever consider for service.
 

Dsadow

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This sound very interesting and a book like this needed to be done on the Harrier. My question is, When will it be avialable??? :)
 

SteveO

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Just thought of the ASW Harrier idea. Was this really studied or just something I read in a techno thriller? "The Hunt for Red October"?
 

Mike Pryce

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Dsadow: Available ASAP. Target is July, if house move, new day job and birth of baby allow time!

SteveO: Sea Harriers were looked at for ASW. Some work was done on using them to drop a sonobuoy barrier in a 'fast response' mode, or to drop light torpedoes in a similar way (i.e. detection of a threat the ASW helos missed). However, I think that was mainly a sales/PR exercise.

The main ASW mission looked at was to use Sea Harriers for nuclear ASW, using WE.177A as a depth bomb, guided via IFF responses/radar plots matched to sonar readings. Speed of response over helicopters was an advantage in this role. Pictures of Sea Harriers with WE.177s at:

http://nuclear-weapons.info/images/032-Sea-Harrier-release.png and http://nuclear-weapons.info/images/033-Sea-Harrier-loaded.png
 

Dsadow

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Thank you for response so quickly!! and Congratulations on all 3 events !! :) May they all be to your liking!!!
 

Thorvic

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harrier said:
Target is July, if house move, new day job and birth of baby allow time!

So having a quiet year then Mike ;)

Good luck with all of the above, does it mean you have changed locations again BTW ?
 

SteveO

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Thanks Mike,

I was imagining some kind of Harrier/Gannet cross breed with 3 seats, a bulbous radome, MAD boom and a dipping sonar for a minute. I blame Chris's RN AEW book ;D
 

Mike Pryce

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Geoff - no big move, still in Manchester.
 

Thorvic

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At least the logistics will be managable but you still have a very busy period ahead of you.

Good luck with getting the Harrier projects written in between all of the above, now i see why Harrier Projects were the best choice for your next book ;) .

If your aiming to be ready by July does that mean that the PTP The Air Staff & AEW will be looking at a winter publishing date ?

Cheers

Geoff
 

CJGibson

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I've been sidetracked onto a biger project, but not as big as Mike's.

Air Staff and AEW will be delayed, hopefully available in the autumn. Lucky actually as I've recently turned up more new material.

Chris
 

Mike Pryce

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The book will be later than expected as someone came along a little sooner than expected.

James Bartholomew Pryce was born on 2nd October. Mum and son are doing fine. His middle name is from an uncle who worked at Hawkers in Kingston, from the days of the Hurricane to the Harrier, and who got me interested in all things with wings.

My new research assistant was supposed to be getting up to speed with his work but fell asleep on the job!
 

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JFC Fuller

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Congratulations Michael! I don't think anyone could begrudge you a delay with a new arrival to keep you busy. Great job with his middle name too!
 

Antonio

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Congratulations!

Take your time, we can wait for the book
 

Dsadow

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Hi, It's been awhile since we have heard anything, How's the Harrier book coming along? :)
 

CJGibson

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Mike's still busy with the ankle-biter.

Chris
 

Mike Pryce

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I start a new job 1st March and have a few days leave to take from the old one, so some hope of progress. Of course, me being at home means the missus wants to spend days at the spa etc. while I look after himself...

Hopefully, having Harrier GR.3 (and Trans-Atlantic Air Race veteran) XV744 outside the office in the new job will help with the inspiration!

xv744.jpg
 

elmayerle

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Given that Northrop Aircraft had the US license to the P.1127 until they delivered it to McDonnell-Douglas, will you be dealing with the Western Museum of Flight to go through the Northrop design office files to see what, if anything, they did with that license?

In any case, I'll most definitely be looking forward to this book.


Just a further thought along these lines, perhaps an "American Harrier" book, starting with the VZ-12 and XV-6A, moving through what projects, if any, Northrop looked at while they had the US license (note, from what I have read, the how and why of their obtaining the US license is a good story in itself), and then what studies McDD-St. Louis did on their own.
 

elmayerle

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Odd humorous thought regarding a civil Harrier, particularly based on the P.1199: 1st class - in the cockpit behind the pilot; Business class - in the tail; economy class - EXINT Pods under the wings.
 

Dsadow

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At the start of the new year,2015, :) How IS the book coming along now. Any new updates on avialability yet ????? ;)
 

Mike Pryce

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Last week I finally took a look at the folder it is in!

Have been busy with work and kids, but demands from both easing off a bit, so hope springs eternal.....

Once I actually do anything on it i'll let you know. In the meantime, Tony Buttler's new 1127/Kestrel book is great.
 

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