Fugaku : Z-plane, G10 or G12

[blackkite]

Not at all.
B-29 bombing route from Guam, Saipan and Iwo jima to Japan.

 

[blackkite]

Hi Starviking-san! Please watch this movie.
http://www.nihon-eiga.com/program/detail/nh10005521_0001.html

http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,14582.60.html


And another Fugaku image.
http://il-2-modding.wikispaces.com/G10N1+Fugaku

 

[blackkite]

Hi!

 

[blackkite]

I watched Japanese TV drama "さらば　空中戦艦　富嶽 (Good-bye Air battle warship Fugaku)" which described Fugaku project from the beginning untill the end. In the drama, I watched strange blue print which shows the aircraft shape we used to discuss.
I can see some Nakajima's official blue prints in the drama. They were Z-Koizumu, Z-Ohta, Z-final and HA-54 engine.
I can see the cover of Chikuhei Nakajima's "試製富嶽日記 (Experimental Fugaku diary)"
Also I can see real interview to Yasuo Naito(Wing aero dynamic desingner), Kiyoshi Tanaka(HA-54 desinger), etc.
It seems that the information from the actual Fugaku project persons concerned was also reflected in this drama.

 

[blackkite]

Hi!　Fugaku is really uncanny. ;D

 

[theponja]

Blackkite very interesting. The "strange" blue print shows a insertion of wings in the fuselage very different than other models and pictures. Are they from an early design?

 

[blackkite]

Blackkite very interesting. The "strange" blue print shows a insertion of wings in the fuselage very different than other models and pictures. Are they from an early design?

Hmmm......I can't identify this blue print is real or not. Very mysterious drawing for me. :-[ It's looks like this drawing. Fuselage and wing shape are little different?
It's true that this drama used many Nakajima's official drawings.

 

[blackkite]

Little different?

 

[blackkite]

Hi! You can see Hajime Hana as Chikuhei Nakajima center of bottom picture.
This TV drama was a very costly one.
Without knowing why, an examination model is downward.
Data donors
Tadashi Nozawa, Toshihiko Matsumoto, Takayuki Nakajima, Michio Kaneko, Kenichi Ishibashi, Yasuhiko Takahashi, Hitoshi Asakura, Nobuyuki Matsuda, Kazunori Miyazaki, monthly AIR WORLD magazine

 

[Jemiba]

Interesting news about the Fugaku project, that come up here, thank you !
I've regarded the Fugaku still yet as just an interesting project, like others, but looking at those
gigantic RC models, a movie and lots of art work, it seems to me, that in Japan, at least amongst
somewhat aviation minded people there, it seem to have a different significance, a kind of national
legacy under the consideration "what could have been, if we had ....".
Reminds me on many discussion in German fora about the Me 262: "If it just would have been available
a little bit earlier, in bigger numbers .... and of course, not been wasted as a fighter bomber !".

 

[T-50]

Blackkite very interesting. The "strange" blue print shows a insertion of wings in the fuselage very different than other models and pictures. Are they from an early design?

Hmmm......I can't identify this blue print is real or not. Very mysterious drawing for me. :-[ It's looks like this drawing. Fuselage and wing shape are little different?
It's true that this drama used many Nakajima's official drawings.
[/quot ]
Hi Blackkite san is the first drawning not the Kawasaki proposal of the Z bomber?

 

[T-50]

very awsome new data!!

 

[blackkite]

Many thanks Jens for your contribution to this topic.
All following pictures are from this TV drama.

 

[blackkite]

Thanks T-50 san for your attention.
氣密室研究 means pressurized cabin research.

 

[blackkite]

Blackkite very interesting. The "strange" blue print shows a insertion of wings in the fuselage very different than other models and pictures. Are they from an early design?

Hmmm......I can't identify this blue print is real or not. Very mysterious drawing for me. :-[ It's looks like this drawing. Fuselage and wing shape are little different?
It's true that this drama used many Nakajima's official drawings.
[/quot ]
Hi Blackkite san is the first drawning not the Kawasaki proposal of the Z bomber?

Hmmm......Yes I think it's true that this blue print is not Nakajima's one because Nakajima's engineers used to tell that "we do not plan such a wing shape . It's very hard to fabricate".

 

[blackkite]

It's from Kawanishi, Kugisho or The IJA aeronautical research institute? But if so, there was a sign of maker.

 

[T-50]

This design is very interesting for me, especially the eleptical wings and the very clean teardrop shaped fuselage loks very modern.
and thinking that this was a design made more than 70 years ago!,homage to the design team that made this very clean design!
I think if it was build this plan was destinated to make a very good long range bomber! becouse it shape make it possible to use less
fuel!
The Americans were very Lucky that Japan dind build this bomber!

 

[Pelzig]

The elliptical winged bomber has sometimes been confused as being the Kawanishi TB, or identified as the Gunzan, some 19-shi Kawanishi bomber project, etc. In reality, it was one of the many Project Z designs and it was discarded very early on due to the very fact it had elliptical wings. Elliptical wings were not easy to construct and were time and material consuming. Plus, they have the disadvantage of stalling across the entire wing span which meant sudden loss of control. Not something you want in such a large bomber.

This design is very interesting for me, especially the eleptical wings and the very clean teardrop shaped fuselage loks very modern.
and thinking that this was a design made more than 70 years ago!,homage to the design team that made this very clean design!
I think if it was build this plan was destinated to make a very good long range bomber! becouse it shape make it possible to use less
fuel!
The Americans were very Lucky that Japan dind build this bomber!

 

[blackkite]

Hi ED! How do you think about this elliptical wing aircraft drawing was real or not?

 

[blackkite]

In the Fugaku project, since there is confrontation of the IJA and the IJN mainly about a common altitude and armaments and also Ministry of Supply(軍需省) interfered it, the confusion which cannot be managed started.
It became the disturbance that Ministry of Supply directed research of a six-shot bomber to Kawanishi aside from a Fugaku project finally.

Source : Japanese internet site.　http://www.hi-ho.ne.jp/nomura1205/bomber_fugaku.htm

陸海軍の対立があり、これに軍需省までくわわったので収拾のつかない混乱がおこったらしい。主として常用高度と武装の点で対立があったようだが、ついには軍需省がZ計画とは別に川西に六発爆撃機の研究を指示するというさわぎになった。

Kanishi's aerodynamicist did basic design for low drag long range high speed 6 engine bomber aside from TB?
Propeller tip gap between inboard engine and outboard engine of Mach club drawing is larger than blue print.
This blue print may be a genuine article. But any way this design was a not consistent one, wing root weak strength, hard to fabricate, weak armament, etc. Possibly the committee of the Nakajima aircraft in the Fugaku committee laughed, seeing this drawing.

 

[T-50]

I saw on the japanese site about Fugaku three different designs,are theu from three different companys?

 

[blackkite]

Hi! Left one is a famous artistic impression of all Japan Fugaku, I think this drawing is not good because wing area is too large compared with official document. Middle one is Nakajima's Z-Ohta. Three side view drawing of this design survive still now. Right one is the Ministry of supply ordered Kawanishi 6 engine bomber study result(This site said so).
I think that survived official 3-side views of Z-plane/Fugaku project are only Z-Ohta, Z-Koizumi, Z-final and Z-transport version.
The original drawing of a Fugaku/Z bomber is partly existing including an HA-54 engine.
All of those drawings are considered to be an individual's possession and not released to the public yet. Very strange situation now.
The owner of a drawing is not clear.
Those drawings are precious historical inheritances.
The Japanese government, the National Diet Library, or the Fuji Heavy Industries should collect those drawings, and should keep and release them.

 

[T-50]

thank god there orginal documents that have survived the war,Il must say the top picture of the two newest fotos youre sending
depicting a awsom version of the Fugaku bomber design! also a very beautiful clean modern looking design
thanks for the fotos Blackkite san!

 

[blackkite]

Hi!
http://blogs.yahoo.co.jp/ak277301/28343919.html


FOR THE TWO OTHER DESIGNS SHOWN HERE, PLEASE HAVE A LOOK AT THE NEXT
POST AND ACCOMPANIED LINK, THANK YOU !

 

[blackkite]

Great find and thanks for sharing it !
As those last two designs seems not to have any relation to the Fugaku, I moved them to
a new topic here.
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,20978.0.html#new
Let's hope for a quick and reliable identification !

Thanks Jens! You are sharp and quick! The engine of all those projects seems to be a crazy HA-54, some relation to Fugaku project.

 

[T-50]

Hi!
http://blogs.yahoo.co.jp/ak277301/28343919.html


FOR THE TWO OTHER DESIGNS SHOWN HERE, PLEASE HAVE A LOOK AT THE NEXT
POST AND ACCOMPANIED LINK, THANK YOU !

beautiful design Blackkite san! its a pitty they dindt have the chance to build this aircraft!
If theu build it than was japan the first country in the world to put a civilian plane into service that can fly nonstop over the pacific!

 

[blackkite]

There were two types of Fugaku/Z transport version.
Perhaps there were two types of Z-Ohta. HA-54 engine variant and HA-44 engine variant. HA-44 engine variant was called temporaly 6 engine bomber.

 

[blackkite]

Hi! HA-54.

 

[blackkite]

Does anyone knows the flight video of this super RC model?
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/thumbgallery.php?t=1526095&do=threadgallery&type=img&group=none&starter=no

 

[blackkite]

Hi! Another artistic impression of Fugaku. It looks like DC-7. ;D

 

[Jemiba]

The artist may have drawn comparisons to the DC-4E/Nakajima G5N.

 

[Stargazer]

Concerning the IJN designation of the Fugaku, I know the G10N designation is purely speculative. What bothers me though is 1°) what would G9 have been? Why not call the Fugaky the G9N? and 2°) where does the G12 in the topic's title come from? Considering there was approximately one program a year, G12 would take us way beyond the end of war, wouldn't it?

 

[blackkite]

Fugaku take off base was planned to be Shumshu island.(Source : this TV drama)
占守島 : Shumshu island, ジェット気流 : jet stream, ニューヨーク : New York, フランス : France, ピッツバーグ : Pittsburgh, ワシントン : Wasington D.C.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shumshu
The last picture shows the factory manager of Fugaku assembly factory, Tadao Sorimachi.

 

[Jemiba]

The plan view seems to show the transport version, doesn't it ?

 

[blackkite]

I think that this airplane resembles Z-Koizumi, especially cabin shape.
Please take care that Z-Koizumi had non-stepped wind shield.

 

[Jemiba]

Maybe, but there seem to be no defensive armament.

 

[blackkite]

Hi! Nakajima's original drawing for Z-project Fugaku. This is 2014 calender of the meeting that fly Fugaku RC model.(Fugaku flying club.)
This drawing title is "Z-project land base bomber Fugaku（Ｚ計画　陸上攻撃機　富嶽）". This drawing was made by Nakajima aircraft Ohta factory.（中島飛行機株式会社　太田製作所）
Span : 65m, Length : 45m, Height : 12m, Wing area : 350 square meter, Engine : BH(HA-54) aircooling radial 36 cylinders 5000hp(take off power)×6
Surprisingly this aircraft was called Fugaku by Nakajima aircraft, not called Z-plane. Obviously this design was a one candidate for Fugaku.(Early design?) I think that this design did not have a pressurized cabin and remote controlled turrets. Cabin ceiling was too flat to withstand inner pressure of pressurized cabin.
Source : Japanese internet site

 

[T-50]

hi Blackkite san a very nice callendar!!

 

[blackkite]

Hi! T-50 san. We already know that there were some candidates for Fugaku. For example, Nakajima HA-44 engine (take off power 2400hp each)variant, Mitsubishi HA-50 engine(take off power 3500hp each) variant and Nakajima HA-54 engine(take off power 5000hp each) variant. It's the first time for me to see the name Fugaku in Nakajima's official document. No doubt it's a real candidate for Fugaku.
This design was almost same as Z-plane.(wing span, wing area and overall length,etc). I think this design was based on the IJA's requirement, rather low mission altitude(about 10000m) and strong armaments. I believe this design did not satisfy the IJN's requirement, high mission altitude(15000m) and weak armament and Nakajima's chief engineer Yasushi Koyama's requirement. I believe that Yasushi Koyama hoped pressurized cabin.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tvZrsO-rebI

 

[blackkite]

hi Blackkite san a very nice callendar!!

Hi T-50 san. I'm trying to get this calender. ;D