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Fugaku : Z-plane, G10 or G12

airman

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Guys i don't understand the difference with G10 and G12 ???
 

blackkite

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Fugaku was the IJA and the IJN's joint project. Perhaps G10N was the IJA's name, but there was no name for the IJN(No Ki number).
I don't know what G12 was.
 

hesham

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Hi,

the G12M was a Mitsubishi design as I saw in a Japanese book from 1990s.
 

blackkite

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Hi!
http://www.sankei.com/life/photos/171230/lif1712300018-p1.html

"Fugaku Flying Club" Members exchange opinions in the hands of "twin-engined three-seat combat aircraft" ;)
 

sgeorges4

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I don't know if you will understand me,but I found some variant of the fugaku the ligne de front n°73:
-The variant with 400 machine gun
-A variant with 96 Type 96(20mm),12 in the nose,12 in the tail and 36 at both side of the fuselage
-A transport variant for 300 parachutist,this version was planned for a kamikaze operation wich was suppose to destroy the boeing factory of Renton who produce the B 29
(Sorry for my english).
And the nakajima NK 11 motor seem to have been planned for the fugaku.
 

Antonio

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I found some variant of the fugaku the ligne de front n°73
Illustrations or just descriptions?

A dedicated feature? Which is the tittle of the article?
 

sgeorges4

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Just description and the tittle off the article is: Colossales, insolites, terrifiantes !
Les armes délirantes de la Seconde Guerre mondiale
http://www.ligne-front.com/enkiosque.php
Also the article deal with some other weapon made by the italian,the american,the english or the russian.
 

lark

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Arawasi issue May 2006 nr.4 describes and
illustrates several 'Mukade' projects.
'Mukade' is Japanese for centipede.

1 version based on the Ginga
1 " " on the Hiryu

and one of the proposed Fugaku armed with
96 (ninety six) 20mm guns.
 

hesham

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lark said:
Arawasi issue May 2006 nr.4 describes and
illustrates several 'Mukade' projects.
'Mukade' is Japanese for centipede.

1 version based on the Ginga
1 " " on the Hiryu

and one of the proposed Fugaku armed with
96 (ninety six) 20mm guns.
Nice Info my dear Lark.
 

sgeorges4

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Here are the drawing and profile for the ligne de front magazine:

 

windswords

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The profile line drawing looks like it was based on a B-29, IMO.
 

M. A. Rozon

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windswords said:
The profile line drawing looks like it was based on a B-29, IMO.
I think that this might be more of a case of similar requirements eventually leading to solutions from different organizations being similar in many respects.

B) Bigger Guns, MORE POWER!
 

blackkite

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This Fugaku drawing is very good especially cabin.
But HA-54 engine with contra rotating double propeller is not a final design.
Please check attached HA-54 engine official drawings.
Propeller is single and engine cowl flap is also single and very big size.
 

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windswords

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The Fugaku design (like its proposed official designation G10 etc.) was never fixed. Fugaku was an idea, a concept. A set design was never fixed on, just like its designation was not official. The Fugaku can be depicted in any number of ways; twin tail, single tail, B-29 like nose, traditional nose, contra-rotating props, traditional props, remote gun turrets, manual gun turrets. The only part of the plane that had progressed to any degree were the Ha-54 engines.
Model makers and artists have a lot of latitude when depicting this aircraft.
 
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blackkite

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Yes and also HA-54 engine suffered cooling problem at last cylinder row.
 

sgeorges4

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The Fugaku design (like its proposed official designation G10 etc.) was never fixed. Fugaku was an idea, a concept. A set design was never fixed on, just like its designation was not official. The Fugaku can be depicted in any number of ways; twin tail single tail, B-29 like nose, traditional nose, contra-rotating props, traditional props, remote gun turrets, manual gun turrets. The only part of the plane that had progressed to any degree were the Ha-54 engines.
Model makers and artists have a lot of latitude when depicting this aircraft.
So the fujimi one is valid ,thanks
 

windswords

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The Fugaku design (like its proposed official designation G10 etc.) was never fixed. Fugaku was an idea, a concept. A set design was never fixed on, just like its designation was not official. The Fugaku can be depicted in any number of ways; twin tail single tail, B-29 like nose, traditional nose, contra-rotating props, traditional props, remote gun turrets, manual gun turrets. The only part of the plane that had progressed to any degree were the Ha-54 engines.
Model makers and artists have a lot of latitude when depicting this aircraft.
So the fujimi one is valid ,thanks
It is as valid as any other rendition. No more, no less.
 

blackkite

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It's absolutely true that we only have the official drawing of Z-plane.
We never have Fugaku drawings at all. Burned out all perhaps.
Only we approach them logically, if possible according to the evidence........ 
 
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blackkite

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Hi! Rather clear image of Z-koizumi as you already know.
中島「Z」海軍機設計部案 means Nakajima Z-bomber(the ancestor of Fugaku bomber) plan which the IJN aircraft design department designed. The IJN aircraft design department belonged to Nakajima aircraft Koizumi factory. This drawing's side view is strange, because there are no space for main landing gear when retracted.
Drawing source is "All the Experimental Aircraft in Japanese Army", KANTOSHA MOOK, 2/20/2008, Minoru Akimoto, ISBN978-4-87357-233-8, page109.

Motocar-san's excellent cutaway of this aircraft is as follows.

And perhaps this is the original drawing of Z-Koizumi. No space for landing gear?

Z-Ohta is as follows.

Z-final shape is as follows.

z-koizumi.JPG
 

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blackkite

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This blog says that......
"During this time, Nakajima Aircraft was coordinating with each related organization and was working on the design of the Fugaku bomber with all efforts, and it seems that it was decided to build a factory that produces Fugaku on the site of Mitaka Research Laboratory.
However, it seems that it was difficult to develop a turbocharger-equipped large engine BH (Ha54) that was planned to be installed in Fugaku bomber, and BH could not obtain a stable output enough to fly a large aircraft. In the end, it is said that they gave up their in-house development and chose to install Mitsubishi's prototype engine “Ha 50” (aircooling radial double row 22 cylinder). By the way, “Ha 50” is exhibited at the Aviation Science Museum near Narita Airport."
 
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blackkite

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There is a list for the IJA aircraft which include long range bomber Fugaku in this book.
"Japanese aeronautical academicscientific history(日本航空学術史)."
Description about Fugaku(two types) are as follows.
Design : Nakajima
(1) Engine : Ha219ru(Ha42-21ru)(Nakajima), Number of engine : 6, Take off power : 2500hp, nominal power : 2050hp(7000m-15000m), Speed : 640km/h/12000m, crew : over 6
(2) Engine : Ha50(Mitsubishi, Number of engine : 6, Take off power : 3300hp, nominal power : 2370hp(10400m), Speed : 700km/h/12000m, crew : over 6

"Engine : Ha219ru(Ha42-21ru)(Nakajima)" is apparently mistake. Correctly it's Ha219ru(Ha44-12ru)(Nakajima).

There are no descriptopn about Nakajima Ha-54 engine. Ha-54 had engine cooling problem at No.4 engine row.
 
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blackkite

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Mitsubishi Ha-50 engine specification is as follows.
Bore : 150mm, Stroke : 170mm, Displacement : 66.1 little, Weight : 1540kg, Diameter : 1500mm, Reduction ratio : 0.412, Super charger : Mechanical drive single stage two speed supercharger+turbocharger, Fuel injection, water injection, take off power : 3100hp/2600rpm, nominal power : 2700hp/2500prm/1500m and 2240hp/2500rpm/10000m
Source : THE HISTORY OF MITSUBISHI AERO-ENGINES, ISBN4-89522-461-9 C0053
Perhaps the length is 2400mm.
 

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