Energia - Buran Space Transportation System

Byeman said:
Not really, open loop means it doesn't react to the real world. It just follows the plan.
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alright alright you thief of joy and destroyer of smiles. reentering and landing on a single open loop of guidance is a cool factoid. not everything needs to be at the bleeding edge to be cool, sometimes being lucky with primitive tech is cool too
 
galopujacy_jez said:
alright alright you thief of joy and destroyer of smiles. reentering and landing on a single open loop of guidance is a cool factoid. not everything needs to be at the bleeding edge to be cool, sometimes being lucky with primitive tech is cool too
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That was in in response to this.

C0de.R.E.A.M. said:
It wasn’t just a Shuttle clone; the level of automation and systems integration seem like they set the stage for some major advancements in Soviet/Russian spaceflight
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Fibonacci said:
Vibration resistance tests of the forward section of Buran #4 or Izdeliye 2.02. This Buran was never completely assembled. This piece ended up abandoned in a field near the TMZ factory, exposed to the elements.
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there's a pretty good argument to be made that this is not a flight orbiter, but airframe segments belonging to test article 0.15, used for used for thermal, acoustic and vibration tests at TsAGI in preparation for second series orbiter production.

The forward fuselage does have the features of a second-series orbiter, but it's quite unusual to see 1. just the forward fuselage of a flight orbiter already covered in tiles - the complete airframe was assembled first, only then equipment and tiles were installed, and 2. the forward fuselage of orbiter 4K being further along in the assembly sequence than orbiter 3K (or 2.01) - at least in terms of the number of tiles attached.

Additionally, the thin extra ring of mid-fuselage behind the cabin is covered in tiles, which works great for vibration and thermal tests of the forward fuselage, but is pretty weird for a flight article to sport - it looks pretty much identical to the one on 0.05 or OK-TVA, the thermal, acoustic and vibration test article for first series orbiters (left photo).
1750176980590.png 1750177002692.png

If I had to bet money, I'd say that the most likely candidate for orbiter 4K is the half-finished airframe in the background. It's definitely a second series airframe, it's being manufactured in the same sequence of operations as first series orbiters and it doesn't have canvas straps or glue residue, so it's not the 0.11 static test article.
1750177162067.png 1750177170567.png

It's also likely the airframe in this photo:

1750177322351.png

And in the same vein, the second forward fuselage (labeled 2.03 in the last photo of OP) is probably 0.16, which was used for the same vacuum strength tests as 0.06, just with second series design features.
 
Once again looking at these videos it's quite clear to me that if Russia and Kazakhstan had spent money back in the 1990s keeping these facilities in a good state of repair and not let them deteriorate they could've turned the complex (And its' Buran hardware residing within) into a tourist exhibit making a lot of money from space-tourists from the West (Also get NASA and ESA involved too).
 
NMaude said:
Once again looking at these videos it's quite clear to me that if Russia and Kazakhstan had spent money back in the 1990s keeping these facilities in a good state of repair and not let them deteriorate they could've turned the complex
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There wouldn't be enough ROI. The costs would be too great and little income.

NMaude said:
(And its' Buran hardware residing within) into a tourist exhibit making a lot of money from space-tourists from the West (Also get NASA and ESA involved too).
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NASA and ESA would not have anything to do with it.
 
Don't hex it. Incarn and others felt disrespected. I am glad we have a Buran chronicler again.
 
DoggoVision said:
Anyone know what was on the CRT displays? (diagram is one of the displays)View attachment 777347View attachment 777346
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The VKUs (or Video Monitoring Device) displayed flight and navigation data provided by the Adonis system; during descent that would probably be the glideslope, orientation/heading and approach paths. Someone else probably has way better info, but here's a sample of what was displayed in the simulator and on test stands.

1752001924731.png 1752003223342.jpeg
1752004211472.png
 
MeachamLake said:
When were these photos taken - mid 90s? And I presume all Energia components were totally destroyed during the 2002 roof collapse?
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The first one could be late 80s, the other two mid-90s. Not everything was destroyed in the collapse, but all core stages and almost all side blocks and their segments were destroyed or scrapped. Some components of the orbiter (e.g. the landing gear) escaped scrapping and were simply left outside around the technical complex. Two RD-0120 engines (serial 5351231154 and 5351231153) that were in the building were reportedly sold to China, and serial 5351231151 (first from left in the photo) was moved to the Baikonur cosmodrome museum where it's currently on display.

1752086273280.png
 
galopujacy_jez said:
The VKUs (or Video Monitoring Device) displayed flight and navigation data provided by the Adonis system; during descent that would probably be the glideslope, orientation/heading and approach paths. Someone else probably has way better info, but here's a sample of what was displayed in the simulator and on test stands.

View attachment 777428View attachment 777430
View attachment 777431
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Do you (Or anyone else) know where I can look for more photos or documents about these systems?
 
DoggoVision said:
Do you (Or anyone else) know where I can look for more photos or documents about these systems?
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This article is a good starting point, I probably have more but I'd have to find it first, I'll try to do that tomorrow.
 

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Random Buran questions of the day:

- The US Shuttle had way more black thermal protection tiles applied at various points on the forward part of the orbiter (notably a patch between the main cockpit windows, in a band above the RCS thrusters etc). Buran didn’t have any of these; was there a specific reason why this choice was made?

- Do we think it’s likely that the TPS arrangement on Buran would have changed/evolved if flights had progressed as intended? It’s intriguing to think what evolutions the orbiters may have gone through had the programme continued.

- On a related note…why did OK GLI sport various paint jobs? It started out mostly white before the unique black “shroud” was painted around the crew cabin section. Any specific reason why this was done, seeing as it would have made no difference to the performance of the vehicle?
 
MeachamLake said:
Random Buran questions of the day:

- The US Shuttle had way more black thermal protection tiles applied at various points on the forward part of the orbiter (notably a patch between the main cockpit windows, in a band above the RCS thrusters etc). Buran didn’t have any of these; was there a specific reason why this choice was made?

- Do we think it’s likely that the TPS arrangement on Buran would have changed/evolved if flights had progressed as intended? It’s intriguing to think what evolutions the orbiters may have gone through had the programme continued.

- On a related note…why did OK GLI sport various paint jobs? It started out mostly white before the unique black “shroud” was painted around the crew cabin section. Any specific reason why this was done, seeing as it would have made no difference to the performance of the vehicle?
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i can give it a shot: as for no. 1 - I don't know of any *specific* reason why this difference exists, but both orbiters had a slightly different shape, reentered at a slightly different angle and the different tiles differed in specification, so the simplest answer I can think of is that it just didn't need it; according to reentry heat maps that area would only experience about 650 °C, which the white tiles (used on areas up to 700 °C) could apparenty handle without issues.
for no. 2 - that has already happened to a degree, despite just one flight; the layout differs slightly between orbiter 1K and 2K (possibly either a Discovery-style "we cut some tiles from the black silica material by accident" on 1K, or a genuine small evolution with experience gained while outfitting the first orbiter)

1K on the left, 2K on the right
1752687115651.png 1752687130151.png
1752687166736.png 1752687236654.png

and there are more changes to "second series" orbiters, 3K and later. Many tiles on the tailfin were replaced with blankets to drive down the vehicle weight and speed up turnarouds (although knocking a couple hundred tiles from a suite of 38,000 wasn't a massive gain by any means)

1752687487424.png
and (this is a bit hard to spot, but I'm relying on Vadim Lukashevich's NK article from a couple years back) the carbon-carbon nosecap was made smaller and tilted more forwards and down. The tiles in the immediate vicinity were changed accordingly.
(2K on the left, 3K on the right)
1752687548090.png 1752687574748.png

As for the OK-GLI question - I'd like to know the answer myself. A part of it cooould have been reducing glare, but then why paint the top of the cabin as well?
 
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Incarn said:
When creating Buran, the design of the shuttle was studied in detail, “under a microscope” - so as not to repeat its mistakes.
All design solutions of the shuttle were known down to the smallest details. The information was analyzed, studied, and all data on the shuttle was systematized in secret reports that Buran's designers had. For example, in this:View attachment 748445
And their own mistakes made during the design of Buran were corrected in the creation of the ships of the second series (when their design began, the shuttle had already been flying for several years).
The ships of the second series are different ships, based on the experience of designing the first Burans.

Nobody knows about the ships of the second series in the West, and I talked a little about them in my article a few years ago, as far as possible (sorry, in Russian):
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Hello, I would like to know where the information about the presence of spoilers on the elevons of the second series ships came from? For example, there are 100% no spoilers on OK-2.01 (photo) And there are no other photos or written mentions of spoilers anywhere

And how they even should work, if they will be covered by heat shields, when the elevons are up by just several degrees? (So they can't be used during final approach and landing)
 

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buran.energia said:
kudos to @galopujacy_jez :)
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You know, before posting I browsed "galopujacy" on this forum to check whether it had been posted before... got no results. Glad to see he is a member here.
Between his blog and Nick Stevens, we are pretty spoiled those days.

https://medium.com/@galopujacyjez

graphicsnickstevens.substack.com

Soviet Space Substack | Nick Stevens Graphics | Substack

This will share discoveries on Soviet Space research, progress with my projects, WIP illustrations, and little-known images from the Soviet Space Program. Click to read Soviet Space Substack, by Nick Stevens Graphics, a Substack publication with hundreds of subscribers.
graphicsnickstevens.substack.com graphicsnickstevens.substack.com
 
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galopujacy_jez said:
medium doesn't allow underscores in usernames!
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You Medium substack is awesome. Thanks for unearthing all those Soviet rocketry information.
Waiting impatiently part 2 of "Exotic RD-0120 derivatives", notably the tripropellant connection. It's a clever technology that should really be given a second chance.
 
On the Energia core block's RD-0120 hydrolox engines--the channel wall equivalents to Space Shuttles RS-25s (SSMEs):
fiftyonepointsix.com

Exotic RD-0120 derivatives. Pt.1

In part oneâââa selection of weird hydrolox engines derived from the RD-0120. In part twoâââmethane and tripropellant variants.
fiftyonepointsix.com fiftyonepointsix.com
fiftyonepointsix.com

Exotic RD-0120 derivatives. Pt.2: Tripropellants, RLV, methane

After a tour of derivatives and variants of the Energia core stage RD-0120 engines that powered Buran to orbit, it’s time to explore …
fiftyonepointsix.com fiftyonepointsix.com

Exotic RD-0120 derivatives: Americanized variants, X-33, RLV, tripropellants

Exotic RD-0120 derivatives: Americanized variants, X-33, RLV, tripropellants
forum.nasaspaceflight.com forum.nasaspaceflight.com

Scott Manley throws a bit of shade at the idea of jet-equipped orbiters--but without SSMEs in the aft boat-tail, it becomes easier:
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HsTKjYJxPG0


OK-92 could have taken off with its powerful abort system--usable with or without Energia
 
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Stunning.

When it rains, it pours... Though often a negative phrase, in this case it is a good thing! The 2024/25 flurry of awesome posts and contributions on this thread is not an isolated case either. It is a trait I have noted across various threads on this site. Most often it is a result of suddenly declassified material or the discovery of lost/archived/horded material being discovered. Other times though it is clear it starts like land slides do. An errant boulder stumbles downhill and soon the whole hill comes tumbling after. Some member here starts a small storm of posts and it gets other people excited. Young and old, expert and amateur alike start contributing and the excitement inevitably grows. It is an amazing thing.
 
I suppose the folks there knew there was no possibility of a revival. Here, suits have no use for history and just chunk things.
 
publiusr said:
Scott Manley throws a bit of shade at the idea of jet-equipped orbiters--but without SSMEs in the aft boat-tail, it becomes easier:

OK-92 could have taken off with its powerful abort system--usable with or without Energia
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both statements are unsubstantiated. No existing data or engineering knowledge supports the claims.
 
publiusr said:
I suppose the folks there knew there was no possibility of a revival. Here, suits have no use for history and just chunk things.
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there is no reason for it. Economics didn't support its development and nothing has changed in the 40 years since.
 
Byeman said:
both statements are unsubstantiated. No existing data or engineering knowledge supports the claims.
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I read about it here
www.target.com

Energiya-Buran - by Bart Hendrickx & Bert Vis (Paperback)

Read reviews and buy Energiya-Buran - by Bart Hendrickx & Bert Vis (Paperback) at Target. Choose from contactless Same Day Delivery, Drive Up and more.
www.target.com www.target.com

A fine book.

The Severed Head and the Soviet Space Plane

Once a crown jewel of the Soviet space program, the Buran became a neglected, graffitied wreck.
www.supercluster.com www.supercluster.com
 
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Byeman said:
nothing in those supports your claims.
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The LES system

They talked about OK-92 years ago

The Buran Thread

The Buran Thread
forum.nasaspaceflight.com forum.nasaspaceflight.com

Page 75-79 as per the internet archive.

V. Lukashevich
“The OK-92 that became Buran”
Novosti Kosmonautiki 3/2006 pp. 56-58
 
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Just a clue: Not everybody here appreciates a thread, that is run in ping-pong manner by two members.
I recommend switching to PM for personal discussions.
Please regard this as a warning !
 

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