Dassault Rafale NEWS ONLY

gral_rj

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en Béotie
Le pays des béotiens ?

One can't invent such things.

(translation: béotien is french word for "ignoramus". A pompous word to design "somebody who knows nothing about a subject".)

In Portuguese, it has a similar meaning. IIRC, it comes from an Ancient Greek stereotype of Boeotians being stupid and lazy.
 

aonestudio

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French Navy Rafale-M fighter will test and demonstrate launch compatibility off a ski-jump today at India’s Shore-based Test Facility (SBTF) in Goa. The fighter, purpose built for a steam catapult launch off the French Navy’s Charles de Gaul aircraft carrier will be launching off a ski jump for the first time in the real world — the fighter’s maker Dassault Aviation has been conducting digital simulations for years now.
 

Archibald

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en Béotie
Le pays des béotiens ?

One can't invent such things.

(translation: béotien is french word for "ignoramus". A pompous word to design "somebody who knows nothing about a subject".)

In Portuguese, it has a similar meaning. IIRC, it comes from an Ancient Greek stereotype of Boeotians being stupid and lazy.

Beotian rhapsody ? (runs for cover)

Charles de Gaul


Why is it so hard to write the name correctly ? De GAULLE you dummy...

Not you @aonestudio but the link you linked
 

TomcatViP

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As I understand the picture is not an actual photograh of the event. I was surprised to see a full combat ladden Rafale jumping out of the ramp for the 1st day. But you'd never know!
 
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helmutkohl

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As I understand the picture is not an actual photograh of the event. I was surprised to see a full combat ladden Rafale jumping out of the ramp for the 1st day. But you'd never know!
yes. it says so at the bottom of that picture if you click it "digitally edited image for representative purposes".

on related news.. Indian news sources just stated today that Modi will make major defense decisions on Wednesday in regards to the Make in India defense drive. Its expected he's going to stop the purchase of several major imports in favor of buy local. So perhaps this might be threatened? But then again, India doesnt make any carrier aircraft since they cut the Naval Tejas.
 

TomcatViP

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French availability rates for 2021:

View: https://twitter.com/HerveGrandjean/status/1479487552050675713/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1479487552050675713%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.opex360.com%2F2022%2F01%2F10%2Fle-ministere-des-armees-se-felicite-de-la-lente-amelioration-de-la-disponibilite-de-ses-aeronefs%2F


With some more details here:
55% des 98 Rafale en dotation au sein de l’armée de l’Air & de l’Espace [AAE] au premier juillet 2021 auront finalement été disponibles [contre 53% en 2018, sur une flotte de 102 appareils]. Quant aux 42 Rafale M de la Marine nationale, 61% d’entre eux l’ont été l’an passé [contre 53% trois ans plus tôt].
—---------------------------

55% of the 98 Rafale in service with the Air & Space [AAE] army as of July 1, 2021 will have finally been available [compared to 53% in 2018, among a fleet of 102 aircraft]. As for the 42 Rafale M of the French Navy, 61% of them were last year [compared to 53% three years earlier].


I am also wondering if in the recycling number, Mr Macron great Bazaar performances are included?!
 
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helmutkohl

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^ wow a link to Key publishing.. do people still post there? I'm still upset at how they needlessly changed the format of that forum which totally killed everything.

im curious to why the naval version of the Rafale has higher availability rates than the land based one.

on another note, according to Livefist, the ski jump test of the Rafale seems to have been delayed to today and will occur at 12:00 local time, which is about 4 hours from now
 

stealthflanker

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^ wow a link to Key publishing.. do people still post there? I'm still upset at how they needlessly changed the format of that forum which totally killed everything.

yeah. so much are lost. It's hard to read now.

on another note, according to Livefist, the ski jump test of the Rafale seems to have been delayed to today and will occur at 12:00 local time, which is about 4 hours from now
Now waiting.
 

helmutkohl

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TR1

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What is the material under the IRST?


Oy-Bhat-bdmc.jpg
 

stealthflanker

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That looks like some sort of Fire-retardant foam.

The bird strikes.. guillotined the OSF, the aircraft system automatically "patch" the hole with that foam.
 

Grey Havoc

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French defence victory could mean a defeat for European co-operation (ft.com, registration or subscription may be required)

There were two reasons for France’s defence industry to celebrate when the United Arab Emirates agreed to buy 80 Rafale fighters from Dassault Aviation last month. First, it was sweet revenge for the humiliation last autumn when Australia walked away from a submarine deal in favour of an alliance with the US. There must have been a frisson of satisfaction in Paris when Abu Dhabi, days after agreeing to buy the French fighter, suspended talks with the US on the purchase of Lockheed Martin’s F-35. Second, the UAE’s order — worth an estimated €14bn — will guarantee production of the Rafale through to 2031, as well as work for more than 400 French companies in the supply chain. It will also help fund France’s investment in future upgrades to the Rafale, which is now expected to be in service through the 2050s. Yet, while the deal has a lot going for it from a French perspective, it risks destabilising Europe’s efforts at defence collaboration. For it strengthens Dassault’s hand in the still-troublesome negotiations with Airbus’s German-based defence division over Europe’s proposed Future Combat Air System (FCAS). The last time Dassault — and by extension the French defence ministry — felt it wasn’t getting what it needed from a European fighter programme, it walked away. The result was Dassault’s Rafale. Launched in 2017 by former German chancellor Angela Merkel and French president Emmanuel Macron, FCAS was an overtly political project. It showed both countries’ determination to bolster Europe’s sovereign military capability after Britain’s exit from the EU. In 2019, Spain joined the programme. The problems began when politicians handed it to industry. From the start, it was marked by squabbling over technology sharing and leadership of the most critical parts of the programme. The fighting was exacerbated by fundamentally different ideas of what collaboration meant. “French collaboration is making sure you get the most effective output,” generally under French leadership, says one European defence executive. “In Germany, it is partly about the best athlete, but also about industrial workshare.” The project also forced together two bitter rivals — Dassault and Airbus Defence and Space. But last year it seemed Europe’s political ambitions had gained the upper hand. A deal on basic principles was struck and industrial agreements were reached on six of the project’s seven pillars, spanning manned and unmanned aircraft, space and terrestrial communications, cutting-edge stealth technologies, artificial intelligence and more. But divisions remain on the seventh pillar — the next-generation fighter jet itself — and there is no sign of imminent compromise. Both sides have logical reasons for digging in their heels. Dassault, standard bearer of France’s sovereignty in combat aircraft, argues it needs to develop and manage the crucial flight-control system itself, for example. But Germany understandably expects its industry to have access to the technology, having pledged billions for the project. It is in this context that the UAE’s Rafale deal could tilt the balance, argues Francis Tusa, consultant and editor of Defence Analysis newsletter. “It has changed the equation,” he says. “France no longer needs Germany. The profits they get from the UAE deal will finance upgrades to Rafale.” “The days for the project are numbered unless the Germans understand where they are in the pecking order,” Tusa adds. “They are not equals in industrial capability.” Meanwhile, the new German government’s plans to codify into law the country’s tougher restrictions on arms exports — potentially limiting them to just Nato and the EU — is adding to tensions. Such constraints on exports “would be a deal killer”, said one French defence executive. It would be a significant blow to Europe’s defence ambitions if France chose to walk away again from a European fighter. It would be a failure, too, for Macron, who has prioritised collaboration during France’s presidency of the EU. But presidential elections are looming in April and the Dassault family does not just control a key French defence company. It owns the politically influential Le Figaro newspaper. Ultimately, while only politicians on both sides can resolve the stand off, that may have to wait until France goes to the polls. But the longer the stalemate continues, the greater the risk for Europe that its latest test case of co-operation begins to fall apart. peggy.hollinger@ft.com
 

Archibald

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Meanwhile, the new German government’s plans to codify into law the country’s tougher restrictions on arms exports — potentially limiting them to just Nato and the EU — is adding to tensions. Such constraints on exports “would be a deal killer”, said one French defence executive.

At some point if Germany only wants to make silly decisions - walk out of nuclear power amid Global warming; selling combat aircraft only to Teletubbies-countries - then don't count on France to follow down the suicidal rabbit hole. We have an independance and an industrial base and jobs to preserve...
Russian gas & global warming- no thanks.
F-35 and Chinese combat aircraft - no thanks.
If that 's a consolation prize, the situation in the automotive industry is a polar opposite.
Except cars, TBH, are not weapons, and don't kill people in wars.
 

TomcatViP

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Honestly, French political arena is like a fish bowl... Lost on Venus: What happens in Europe won't affect in any way Mr Macron political path.
Then, I am sure Dassault's management team have now matured enough to understand that turning their back again to Europe will affect their prospective sales. They need it as much as any perfume needs a sexy English speaking woman hacking sensually a bit of French words in a commercial.

Would the German and Spanish industry be contented in that hypothesis? Well, the vision is that it's business only. If they can still work in the same time with LM on the F-35 or the Brits, there will not be blood.
As I have said before, IMOHO, there is plenty of rooms for both design. That's the only thing to be learned from the Typhoon/Rafale debacle.
 
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Archibald

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I'm quite sure we can ditch Germany and keep Spain... it nearly happened for the Rafale (I thought last call had been August 1985 but they seemingly dragged their feet until 1988 before jumping into the Typhoon bandwagon).
 

helmutkohl

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I'm quite sure we can ditch Germany and keep Spain... it nearly happened for the Rafale (I thought last call had been August 1985 but they seemingly dragged their feet until 1988 before jumping into the Typhoon bandwagon).

to be honest.. I've always felt that should the case. A lot of the Franco-German (or majority Franco-German plus smaller contributors) projects have always had some major issues. Tiger, NH90, etc..
the collabs that I thought were great were often Franco-UK, but that may not happen again any time soon.
France should just do w/o Germany.
 

H_K

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@TomcatViP Maybe true in times long ago but the German parliament isn’t exactly helping the situation, and has been a problem for all European projects since the end of the Cold War (eg. Eurofighter).

Ideal solution would be for Germany to pullout of NGF and to continue collaboration on only a narrow, discrete part of the SCAF ecosystem, e.g. future engine technology, remote carriers etc. Then France/Dassault could go build the NGF platform with more reliable partners such as Spain and (ideally) Greece.
 

helmutkohl

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@TomcatViP Maybe true in times long ago but the German parliament isn’t exactly helping the situation, and has been a problem for all European projects since the end of the Cold War (eg. Eurofighter).

Ideal solution would be for Germany to pullout of NGF and to continue collaboration on only a narrow, discrete part of the SCAF ecosystem, e.g. future engine technology, remote carriers etc. Then France/Dassault could go build the NGF platform with more reliable partners such as Spain and (ideally) Greece.
this makes me quite concerned about the future franco german MBT as well. even though both countries have very excellent engineers and designers.. its Germanys politics and management that will lead to products with changing goal posts, cost overruns, etc
 

starviking

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That looks like some sort of Fire-retardant foam.

The bird strikes.. guillotined the OSF, the aircraft system automatically "patch" the hole with that foam.
I think it’s just likely to be structural foam. Probably there to keep vibrations away from the IRST and limit thermal fluctuations. Just a guess though.
 

Archibald

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Transall with Germany was damn successfull, to the point it will be retired 60 years after 1963.
Jaguar with GB was a mixed bag - decent aircraft but at what cost ?

As you said, I don't follow a lot Germany defense news, but clearly since reunification they are blundering a lot.

Maybe its time for "round 3" and a new partner: With GB in post-Brexit troubles and Germany behaving... oddly, maybe Spain time has come.
 

Grey Havoc

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TomcatViP

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French availability rates for 2021:

View: https://twitter.com/HerveGrandjean/status/1479487552050675713/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1479487552050675713%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.opex360.com%2F2022%2F01%2F10%2Fle-ministere-des-armees-se-felicite-de-la-lente-amelioration-de-la-disponibilite-de-ses-aeronefs%2F


With some more details here:
55% des 98 Rafale en dotation au sein de l’armée de l’Air & de l’Espace [AAE] au premier juillet 2021 auront finalement été disponibles [contre 53% en 2018, sur une flotte de 102 appareils]. Quant aux 42 Rafale M de la Marine nationale, 61% d’entre eux l’ont été l’an passé [contre 53% trois ans plus tôt].
—---------------------------

55% of the 98 Rafale in service with the Air & Space [AAE] army as of July 1, 2021 will have finally been available [compared to 53% in 2018, among a fleet of 102 aircraft]. As for the 42 Rafale M of the French Navy, 61% of them were last year [compared to 53% three years earlier].


I am also wondering if in the recycling number, Mr Macron great Bazaar performances are included?!

A bit more detailled number for those interested:

 

Deltafan

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"Six Rafale fighter jets ordered from France by Greece landed on the Greek military base in Tanagra on Wednesday"

 

H_K

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That’s a pretty good load for a ski jump…

1x Exocet, 2x 2,000L drop tanks, and 4x (probably 6x) air-to-air missiles.

We don’t know if the tanks are full or if they need to be topped up by a buddy refueler after take off… but either way this configuration will have decent range, despite the legend that carriers with ski-jumps can’t strike targets at long range.
 
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Archibald

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Thank you.

In passing: this made me chuckle.
"Rafali" Rafale-Maritime
Rafali ? is that latin plural of Rafale ?

Rafale, rafalum, rafali...

And Rafale maritime ? Close, but no cigar. It's "marine" as in: navy. Or "mariner".
But "maritime" is a real word with a very close meaning: "related to sea".

Except it doesn't apply to "naval machines" but to things like coastline. "façade maritime".

Rafale maritime sounds like "a squall from the ocean" (oceanic squall if you prefer).
 

helmutkohl

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In passing: this made me chuckle.
"Rafali" Rafale-Maritime
Rafali ? is that latin plural of Rafale ?
Yes it is. This is an artifact of the semi-Google-translation made by topwar.ru team for this article, originally written in Russian. But can't blame them on this, since my English sucks too.

I made this quick graphic and posted it in the Vikrant thread

Basically using public information on guesses on the Vikrant's elevator dimensions and the dimensions of the Hornet and Rafale
you can see the Rafale fits almost exactly within the Vikrants elevator (left). The right image is to get the Rafale to the correct scale.. however HK or some one pointed that the total length includes the tail, so if true, then the Rafale has more space on the elevator.
EIther way, the Rafale fits in the elevator without needing folded wings.

The Super hornet on the other hand, needs to use its folded wings to fit, and its nose will be sticking out. Not a problem for the Vikrant as the elevators are on the edge of the carrier.

But if these will also replace the MiG-29Ks on the Vikramaditya.. not sure how that would work. It has two elevators. I've read that one is 18.8 x 9.9 and the other elevator is 18.8 8.6.. meaning both aircraft can fit length wise, but neither will fit width wise. Especially the smaller elevator

(Ive noticed since making this pic, its been copied and pasted around various indian blogs)
Screen Shot 2022-01-12 at 16.18.20.png

as for F-35. using those elevator numbers (again not sure if accurate).
F-35B could fit in the Vikrant elevators, but not the Vikramaditya
F-35C could fit in both with its wings folded. But only using one of Vikramaditya's lifts.
 
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TomcatViP

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Notice that, with folding wings, the Super Hornet can be loaded on an elevator with its full weapons load (wingtip missiles included). The Rafale might not (hence the wingtip folding mod).
 

Archibald

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In passing: this made me chuckle.
"Rafali" Rafale-Maritime
Rafali ? is that latin plural of Rafale ?
Yes it is. This is an artifact of the semi-Google-translation made by topwar.ru team for this article, originally written in Russian. But can't blame them on this, since my English sucks too.

I made this quick graphic and posted it in the Vikrant thread

Basically using public information on guesses on the Vikrant's elevator dimensions and the dimensions of the Hornet and Rafale
you can see the Rafale fits almost exactly within the Vikrants elevator (left). The right image is to get the Rafale to the correct scale.. however HK or some one pointed that the total length includes the tail, so if true, then the Rafale has more space on the elevator.
EIther way, the Rafale fits in the elevator without needing folded wings.

The Super hornet on the other hand, needs to use its folded wings to fit, and its nose will be sticking out. Not a problem for the Vikrant as the elevators are on the edge of the carrier.

But if these will also replace the MiG-29Ks on the Vikramaditya.. not sure how that would work. It has two elevators. I've read that one is 18.8 x 9.9 and the other elevator is 18.8 8.6.. meaning both aircraft can fit length wise, but neither will fit width wise. Especially the smaller elevator

(Ive noticed since making this pic, its been copied and pasted around various indian blogs)
View attachment 672796

as for F-35. using those elevator numbers (again not sure if accurate).
F-35B could fit in the Vikrant elevators, but not the Vikramaditya
F-35C could fit in both with its wings folded. But only using one of Vikramaditya's lifts.

The Rafale is really a tight fit !

As for your pictures: consider putting watermarks on them...
 

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helmutkohl

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Indonesia signing for 36 Rafales seems imminent
if it goes through, that means up to 266 rafales signed for export
which is getting close to the 277 Mirage 2000s that were exported



 

Archibald

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Hmmm...how many times has Indonesia supposedly been getting new fighters be those Rafales, Typhoons, F-15s....?

They should be careful, otherwise soon their air force will looks like Egypt's ! Or Spain back in the heydays of the 1980's (Mirage IIIs and Mirage F1s and F-104s and F-5s and F-4s and Harriers and Hornets !)


:D
:D
 
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