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Canadair/General Dynamics CL-84 Projects

hesham

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Here is what Canadair VTOL developments intended for;

ASR3-60 : CL-62
ASRI-60 : CL-73,CL-74 & CL-84
US Navy Sea Control Ship : CL-84-1A (1972),CL-84-8
OVX : CL-84-11D
AAFSS : CL-84A
STAS : CL-84E & CL-84F
SAR : CL-84G
SOR-222 : CL-84H & CL-84J
SOR-210 : CL-84K
AFAC : CL-84L
CARA : CL-84M
 

hesham

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Hi;

I am very humble small designer in aviation world,but who can note with me,the main reason for falling of
CL-84 ?.
 

Pioneer

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I'm taking a punt, so IMO, its because it wasn't all American in design or nature. I must admit, U.S. industry seems tI have an ability to lobby against Canadian aviation industry!

Regards
Pioneer
 

hesham

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My dear Pioneer,

even I confess with this fact,but I meant there was a big mistake on the design itself.
 

Triton

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The two cents from Wikipedia:

The end of the Vietnam War meant a scaling back on military requirements, but Canadair designer Fred Phillips had been cognizant of other factors gravitating against the "84." The first and most crucial was the “NBH” (not built here) factor; Canada had overcome it with other sales to the US military but the de Havilland Canada Beaver, Otter and Caribou loomed as exceptions to the rule. It was also "a prop job in the age of jets" and, lastly, the CL-84 "tilt-wing" concept did not have a "grand champion" who would fight for it in boardrooms and military procurement offices. Canadair had tried to sell the Dynavert to others – Germany, Holland, Italy, Scandinavia and the United Kingdom were all courted, but, in the end, the Canadair CL-84 project died in 1974 for lack of interest, not even in Canada.[11]
Source:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadair_CL-84
 

hesham

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hesham said:
My dear Pioneer,

even I confess with this fact,"but I meant there was a big mistake on the design itself".
Please think about my comment.
 

AeroFranz

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I don't think there was any big flaw with the design itself. You could argue that it is in that regard, on the whole, no better nor worse than a tilt-rotor. Both configurations have pros and cons, including inherent flight envelope limitations that can be dangerous, but in the case of the V-22 were accepted by the services. I think dependent on the mission profile you can make the case for one vs. the other. The V-22 probably succeeded because of strong political support, and even with that it took decades to mature.

BTW, thanks for posting all the individual pictures. ;)
 

LowObservable

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'Orses for courses. There's a continuum of things between fast helicopters and STOL propeller transports - tilt-wings, semi-tiltwings (SuperFrog), and blown wings/interconnected props like the Breguet 941. If you want well-controlled hover with reasonably low downwash, the tilt-rotor is not bad; tilt-wings have to watch out for control issues and wing stall, but they're faster and do STOL better than a TW.

I remember talking to a lot of Canadair guys in 1984 and they still had a "we was robbed, I tell you, robbed" attitude to the V-22, not to mention lots of numbers comparing the XV-15 to the CL-84 (both had T53s).
 

RLBH

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LowObservable said:
I remember talking to a lot of Canadair guys in 1984 and they still had a "we was robbed, I tell you, robbed" attitude to the V-22, not to mention lots of numbers comparing the XV-15 to the CL-84 (both had T53s).
The same T53s, or so I've heard - the CL-84s engines were the only ones qualified to run vertically and were used to build the XV-15.
 

hesham

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My dears,

not the engine not tilt-wing were not suitable,but if you analysis the design itself
and account the aeronautical of the shape,you will find a serious problem,usual
I use my mind instead off computer.
 

Stargazer2006

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All Canadair VTOL projects before the Dynavert prototypes are now covered in a separate topic:
https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,30469.0/all.htm

There is also a distinct topic for the CL-246 and CL-286 VTOL projects:
https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,30472.0
 

allysonca

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On it's the way to the collection..... The model Circle 5 had posted another version a while back that was one I had restored and traded away, much to my regret. Now at long last, I will have one even better! The AEW version is so much more interesting than the ASW version if you ask me. A little TLC and I'll repost.
 

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