• Hi Guest! Forum rules have been updated. All users please read here.

Arsenal de l'aéronautique: built prototypes and unbuilt projects

Apophenia

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Joined
Jul 25, 2007
Messages
2,502
Reaction score
762
Fantasies ... including their version of the VG 60. The Oct 1939 version was to powered by a 1000 hp HS.12Y-51 with Sidlowsky-Planiol 2-stage turbocharger - not an HS 12Z.
 

Apophenia

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Joined
Jul 25, 2007
Messages
2,502
Reaction score
762
... but the designation VG.61 & VG.64,are they real one or fake ?.
Yes, that's what Airborne2001 was asking. On his 'VG 60/VG 64 Revenant (Ghost)' link, you will find a host of fictional VG 60 variants listed - a bubble-canopied VG 60 (HS 12Z), VG 61A (produced by someone other than Arsenal), VG 61H (with HS 12Z-55), VG 61N (presumably Navale with unspecified armament changes), and VG 64 ("Late 1941" with an unnamed HS V-12 with "a Turbomeca supercharger").

Links in the specifications areas are to now-defunct WesWorld pages. I think that should be enough to confirm that these designations are what-ifs. (Perhaps Hood could confirm?)

Still, the Arsenal confusion continues ... On Justo's Le Fana table (676.jpg), the VG 60 is listed only as a 'Jummo 213E' (sic) powered 1945 project. It is the 1939 version of the VG 70 that is listed with an HS 12Y-51. However, in the text (678.jpg) is says: "Elles menèrent au type VG 60, totalement re-dessiné et qui dut commencer avec le moteur 12Z, inévitable groupe des projets de chasseurs français de l'époque."

That bit about 'like all French fighter projects of the time' seems abit overarching to me. With so much contradictory information on VG 60 development, nothing is irrefutable. It seems entirely plausible that, in 1939, Arsenal intended to power a prototype VG 60 with an HS 12Y-51 followed by production aircraft with HS 12Zs. Or, at least, that's the story I am sticking with ... until someone can show incontrovertibly that an HS 12Z was planned from the outset ;)
 
Last edited:

charles

I really should change my personal text
Joined
Nov 30, 2015
Messages
1
Reaction score
0
Nick Sumner said:
I don't know of any French inverted 'V' engines but Arsenal used Jumo 213s on the He 274 prototype. Was the VG70 a late war or post war design featuring the Jumo 213?
I note that the 'VG 70' sideview in Reply #41 looks very much like the VG 60 in Reply #42. Is it possible that the Le Fana author has conflated the two?

I have the VG 70 as a Jumo 004-powered VG 60 derivative (work beginning in September 1944). The VG 60 was, initially to have an 'upright' Hispano (first HS 12Y-51, then HS 12Z). However, the VG 60's post-war (1946?) incarnation was, indeed, to be powered by an inverted V-12 Arsenal 12H (Jumo 213E).
The Arsenal VG. 60 is one of my all time favorite French projects.

Now there is this website here which mentions some variants:

However, I have never heard of any of these variants. Searches have brought up nothing. Are these real, or jest theoretical/fantasy developments?
The Arsenal VG. 60 is one of my all time favorite French projects.

Now there is this website here which mentions some variants:

However, I have never heard of any of these variants. Searches have brought up nothing. Are these real, or jest theoretical/fantasy developments?
 
Top