• Hi Guest! Forum rules have been updated. All users please read here.

Argentinian Unbuilt Projects

Antonio

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Staff member
Senior Member
Joined
Jan 22, 2006
Messages
3,450
Reaction score
155
Excelent, quite an comprehensive bibliography
 

Erdosain

CLEARANCE: Confidential
Joined
Mar 10, 2020
Messages
99
Reaction score
334
The FMA IA-68 Advanced Attack Aircraft

A project that did not pass the initial proposal, but was a great discovery last year since it was completely unknown outside the FMA








 

Petrus

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Nov 28, 2006
Messages
590
Reaction score
202
Again on the IAe-27a.

This time two photos of pages from an Argentinian magazine, in first of which you may see Mr Norberto Morchio in his home in Cordoba in 2012 beside models of 'the original design' of Pulqui II and Pulqui I and in the other - model of the IAe-27a (the same as above). Perhaps anyone can tell what magazine the photos come from?

In addition to that: from http://historiasdeaviones.blogspot.com/2013/11/la-genesis-de-las-flechas.html a drawing of the wing and undercarriage of the first prototype of IA-33 (you may see the "IA-33" in the right-lower corner of the drawing). It looks quite interesting as it clearly depict a mid-wing aircraft, not the high-wing (IA-33 as built). So I suspect that this was to be an intermediate phase of the design between Morchio-Ricciardi's design and that of Tank. Bearing in mind a remark from the article in the IAPR (https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/argentinian-unbuilt-projects.211/post-347027) that "Tank's fuselage was adopted with the IAe-27a undercarriage", what may be seen in the drawing is the undercarriage arrangement from the Morchio-Ricciardi project. It may be also an indication that their project was in fact mid-wing rather than low-wing.
Btw does anybody have the drawing with higher resolution?

Piotr
Now @Erdosain (GREAT THANKS!!!) has sent me a scan of the book "Proceso de Diseño del Pulqui I. Anteproyecto del Pulqui II" by Norberto Morchio and Humberto Ricciardi (the authors were the designers of the IAe-27a). The book says that the undercarriage of the Morchio-Ricciardi project retracted into the fuselage while "in the German project it was retracted in the wings with a complicated retraction system" - so quite obviously what is seen in the drawing attached to my previous post must be the initial German (i.d. that of Kurt Tank's team) design of the IAe-33: mid-wing with undercarriage partially rectracting into wings and wheels - into fuselage. Subsequently it was agreed that the final project of the IAe-33 would have a fuselage designed by the Germans (wider that that designed by Morchio and Ricciardi with bigger fuel tanks) but with Morchio-Ricciardi undercarriage (i.e. retracted into the fuselage).
It should be also noted that first version of Morchio-Ricciardi design was low-wing (there were its two sub-versions: one with the tailplane mid-mounted on the fin, and the other with T-tail). The second version was high-wing.

Attached here you may find aircraft characteristics for the three Pulquis (as compared to MiG-15 and Mystere IV). Its source is the above-mentioned book.

Piotr
 

Attachments

hesham

CLEARANCE: Above Top Secret
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
26,087
Reaction score
3,004

Attachments

Erdosain

CLEARANCE: Confidential
Joined
Mar 10, 2020
Messages
99
Reaction score
334
Again on the IAe-27a.

This time two photos of pages from an Argentinian magazine, in first of which you may see Mr Norberto Morchio in his home in Cordoba in 2012 beside models of 'the original design' of Pulqui II and Pulqui I and in the other - model of the IAe-27a (the same as above). Perhaps anyone can tell what magazine the photos come from?

In addition to that: from http://historiasdeaviones.blogspot.com/2013/11/la-genesis-de-las-flechas.html a drawing of the wing and undercarriage of the first prototype of IA-33 (you may see the "IA-33" in the right-lower corner of the drawing). It looks quite interesting as it clearly depict a mid-wing aircraft, not the high-wing (IA-33 as built). So I suspect that this was to be an intermediate phase of the design between Morchio-Ricciardi's design and that of Tank. Bearing in mind a remark from the article in the IAPR (https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/threads/argentinian-unbuilt-projects.211/post-347027) that "Tank's fuselage was adopted with the IAe-27a undercarriage", what may be seen in the drawing is the undercarriage arrangement from the Morchio-Ricciardi project. It may be also an indication that their project was in fact mid-wing rather than low-wing.
Btw does anybody have the drawing with higher resolution?

Piotr
Now @Erdosain (GREAT THANKS!!!) has sent me a scan of the book "Proceso de Diseño del Pulqui I. Anteproyecto del Pulqui II" by Norberto Morchio and Humberto Ricciardi (the authors were the designers of the IAe-27a). The book says that the undercarriage of the Morchio-Ricciardi project retracted into the fuselage while "in the German project it was retracted in the wings with a complicated retraction system" - so quite obviously what is seen in the drawing attached to my previous post must be the initial German (i.d. that of Kurt Tank's team) design of the IAe-33: mid-wing with undercarriage partially rectracting into wings and wheels - into fuselage. Subsequently it was agreed that the final project of the IAe-33 would have a fuselage designed by the Germans (wider that that designed by Morchio and Ricciardi with bigger fuel tanks) but with Morchio-Ricciardi undercarriage (i.e. retracted into the fuselage).
It should be also noted that first version of Morchio-Ricciardi design was low-wing (there were its two sub-versions: one with the tailplane mid-mounted on the fin, and the other with T-tail). The second version was high-wing.

Attached here you may find aircraft characteristics for the three Pulquis (as compared to MiG-15 and Mystere IV). Its source is the above-mentioned book.

Piotr

In this facebook group called "Argentine Aerospace Development" (Desarrollo Aeroespacial Argentino) you can find some books and articles, in pdf and jpg format, of Argentine aircraft (including the book "Proceso de Diseño del Pulqui I. Anteproyecto del Pulqui II" by Norberto Morchio and Humberto Ricciardi ) and many photos of Pulqui I, II, IA-37/38/48 and others.

I will upload the most interesting photos here as I have time


Desarrollo Aeroespacial Argentino - Pasado, Presente y Futuro
 

hesham

CLEARANCE: Above Top Secret
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
26,087
Reaction score
3,004
The Czech aviation magazine Letectvi + Kosmonautika # 23/1990 reported on a Argentinian helicopter projected by the company Fabrica Argentina de Materials Aeroespaciales.
My dear Boxkite,please in which page this Info,I have that issue,but I can't find it.
 

riggerrob

I really should change my personal text
Joined
Mar 11, 2012
Messages
817
Reaction score
334
Cicadas CH-14 appears to be based on Bell 206 Jet Ranger/Kiowa dynamic components.
Iran indepently developed a similar protoype.
 
Last edited:

Erdosain

CLEARANCE: Confidential
Joined
Mar 10, 2020
Messages
99
Reaction score
334
Alas Argentinas, reflejo de un país (2008)

From Ezequiel Comesaña. The documentary tells the story of the first military aircraft factory in South America, located in the city of Córdoba, Argentina. His achievements came to compete on equal terms with others in the United States and Europe.

With meticulous research work it is revealed:
-The relationship between Peronism and aeronautics.
-The controversial arrival of German engineers, protagonists of the high aeronautical development in the Nazi state, during the Second World War.
-The causes of the total destruction of the Argentine aeronautical development after the coup d'etat of 1955.
-And the ironic intention to revive this industry during the last military dictatorship.

The documentary sheds light on this story, which finds a perfect correlation with those of a country in a permanent state of discontinued cycles.

 

Erdosain

CLEARANCE: Confidential
Joined
Mar 10, 2020
Messages
99
Reaction score
334
El Piloto de Perón (2011)

Complete documentary by Ezequiel Comesaña. The feature film recounts the life and most outstanding feats of the Argentine military aircraft pilot Edmundo Weiss. Several records of the protagonist are revealed, including having been the first Argentine and South American to fly jet aircraft (inaugural flight of the Pulqui I and Pulqui II), and having tested the largest number of prototypes and series of aircraft designed and built in the country.

 

Petrus

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Nov 28, 2006
Messages
590
Reaction score
202
In this facebook group called "Argentine Aerospace Development" (Desarrollo Aeroespacial Argentino) you can find some books and articles, in pdf and jpg format, of Argentine aircraft (including the book "Proceso de Diseño del Pulqui I. Anteproyecto del Pulqui II" by Norberto Morchio and Humberto Ricciardi ) and many photos of Pulqui I, II, IA-37/38/48 and others.

I will upload the most interesting photos here as I have time


Desarrollo Aeroespacial Argentino - Pasado, Presente y Futuro
Indeed the content of the Facebook group is absolutely fantastic! As an example here you've got drawings of two armed version of the IA-50 Guarani II that come from "El DINFIA IA-50 G-II" by Hernan Longoni and Jose Martinez.
 

Attachments

Erdosain

CLEARANCE: Confidential
Joined
Mar 10, 2020
Messages
99
Reaction score
334
In this facebook group called "Argentine Aerospace Development" (Desarrollo Aeroespacial Argentino) you can find some books and articles, in pdf and jpg format, of Argentine aircraft (including the book "Proceso de Diseño del Pulqui I. Anteproyecto del Pulqui II" by Norberto Morchio and Humberto Ricciardi ) and many photos of Pulqui I, II, IA-37/38/48 and others.

I will upload the most interesting photos here as I have time


Desarrollo Aeroespacial Argentino - Pasado, Presente y Futuro
Indeed the content of the Facebook group is absolutely fantastic! As an example here you've got drawings of two armed version of the IA-50 Guarani II that come from "El DINFIA IA-50 G-II" by Hernan Longoni and Jose Martinez.
You can download the book in pdf for free from this author's blog:



In this blog there are many notes, in Spanish, about Pulqui I and II, Calquin, IA-38, IA-37 and others.
The author is very well documented
 

hesham

CLEARANCE: Above Top Secret
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
26,087
Reaction score
3,004
Hi,

 

Attachments

Markos990

CLEARANCE: Restricted
Joined
Jun 12, 2020
Messages
2
Reaction score
5
Hi.
I know this is an old post, but I am going to share with you some screenshots of the models we made with friends for the Strike Fighters 2 Combat Simulator, these are models of the IAe.27 Pulqui I , designed almost entirely from Dewoitine , also from IAe.33 Pulqui II, designed by the Argentine Aerotechnical Institute in collaboration with Kurt Tank, but not only by him, as many think.

The subject is long, but I have a lot of information about it, even from Pallavicino's designs, which were really beautiful.

Without further ado, I cordially greet you from Argentina!
 

Attachments

COLDOWN

CLEARANCE: Confidential
Joined
Nov 13, 2019
Messages
79
Reaction score
59
Hi.
I know this is an old post, but I am going to share with you some screenshots of the models we made with friends for the Strike Fighters 2 Combat Simulator, these are models of the IAe.27 Pulqui I , designed almost entirely from Dewoitine , also from IAe.33 Pulqui II, designed by the Argentine Aerotechnical Institute in collaboration with Kurt Tank, but not only by him, as many think.

The subject is long, but I have a lot of information about it, even from Pallavicino's designs, which were really beautiful.

Without further ado, I cordially greet you from Argentina!
Awesome.
Can you tag them?
Hope you cam make all the prototypes models.
Regards
 

Erdosain

CLEARANCE: Confidential
Joined
Mar 10, 2020
Messages
99
Reaction score
334
Hi Erdosain,

can you tell us the FMA series from I.Ae.1 to I.Ae.18,but please if you know,send your answer in this topic;

Hi Erdosain,

can you tell us the FMA series from I.Ae.1 to I.Ae.18,but please if you know,send your answer in this topic;


Dear hesham, the designations I.Ae.1 to 18 do not exist and there are no projects or pre-projects assigned to them.

It would be going into political questions, but for different reasons there were times when the FMA was dedicated to producing its own designs and other times where it manufactured planes under license.

In the era from Ae.C.1 to Ae.C.4 there were press attacks on the planes produced in the country, requesting that planes be purchased abroad.

Then there was a period under a government with a certain political orientation where the aircraft factory dedicated itself to producing under license and performing maintenance on army aviation aircraft.

After the IIGM with the arrival of Peron to power, aircraft are designed and produced again locally.

Then, starting in 1960, it goes back to the production under license, with some local products such as Guarani II and Pucará, and in the 70s to try a long-term industrial project again with the assistance of Dornier (IA-63, IA-68, ATL, SAIA-90 and then CBA-123 with Embraer).

Best regards
 

Erdosain

CLEARANCE: Confidential
Joined
Mar 10, 2020
Messages
99
Reaction score
334
Some books and documents about the Fabrica Militar de Aviones and its designs



In this link, the Aerospacio magazines from 1979 to the present day, with many interesting notes on Pucara, Pampa, Calquin, etc.

Aerospacio is the official magazine of the Argentine Air Force and until 1990 the full magazine was published in English and Spanish:




This particular number of Aerospacio is very interesting, because it presents the models designed and produced in FMA:

 

Erdosain

CLEARANCE: Confidential
Joined
Mar 10, 2020
Messages
99
Reaction score
334
Last edited:

martinbayer

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Joined
Jan 6, 2009
Messages
680
Reaction score
154
One of those four designs definitely looks very different from the others...
 

Erdosain

CLEARANCE: Confidential
Joined
Mar 10, 2020
Messages
99
Reaction score
334








 

Erdosain

CLEARANCE: Confidential
Joined
Mar 10, 2020
Messages
99
Reaction score
334
What about IA 67 Córdoba light attack bomber?

Any info?
The IA-67 Cordoba is from the same year as IA-66, I should check my books.

The IA-66 was re-engined with the assistance of the American company Volpar, which offered the IA-67 Cordoba to FAA. The IA-67 used wings, engine, nacelles and two rear fuselages from the Pucara to obtain a transport aircraft very similar to the IAI ARAVA.

Based on IA-67, VOLPAR presents its proposal for the ATL to the FAA, then IA-68, which was an enlarged IA-67. The local proposal presented by the Aeronautical and Space Research Institute (IIAE - Instituto de Investigaciones Aeronáuticas y Espaciales ), which was more advanced and promising than Volpar's, was preferred.
 

Erdosain

CLEARANCE: Confidential
Joined
Mar 10, 2020
Messages
99
Reaction score
334
Today June 16, 2020 marks the 70th anniversary of the first flight of the prototype of the supersonic interceptor fighter I.Ae 33 Pulqui II E-1 The same was carried out on the Runway of the Military School of Parachuting, on June 16, 1950 at controls of Captain Edmundo Weiss The plane in question was equipped with a Rolls Royce "Nene" engine with a takeoff thrust of 2300 kg with a maximum speed of 1,040 K / Hs This same aircraft was presented on February 8, 1951 in the Aeropark before the then President General Juan Domingo Perón and the Prince Consort of the Netherlands being its pilot Kurt Tank Source FMA Historical Book

EAM 055.jpg



Captain Edmundo Weiss settling in the cabin of Pulqui II before starting the first flight.
Photo FMA Via Atilio Enzo Marino

103456048_1407313619657504_5088258538064321029_n.jpg



The I.Ae.33 in full takeoff phase on the runway of the Military School of Skydiving
Photo FMA Via Atilio Enzo Marino

103601073_1407313672990832_320330609467625308_o.jpg



Front shot of the Pulqui II the day of the first flight
Photo FMA Via Atilio Enzo Marino

104433688_1407313762990823_1610239272238081823_n.jpg



Rear view of the I.Ae. 33 Pulqui II before starting his first flight
Photo FMA Via Atilio Enzo Marino

104082960_1407313876324145_7426671531038878142_n.jpg
 
Top