Erdosain

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Hello I am from Argentina. Looking for information on Horten for my final aeronautical engineering work I found a lot of information about the IA-37 and the unknown cruise missile proposed by Horten in 1960

I wrote this article, which was translated into English in warisboring's web:


La Bomba Volante Supersónica del Dr Reimar Horten


10901268_10205574770392416_138957593_o.jpg


Misil-Horten-11.jpg





From Nazi Germany to Argentina — A Proposal for the World’s First Small, Supersonic Cruise Missile
IMG_3990-970x350.jpg
 
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FMA I.Ae.24 Calquin launching a Tabano air-to-air missile.


 

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IRBM Condor II

This project began after the Malvinas/Falklands War with German assistance, it was canceled in the 90s by political pressure from the US, UK and Israel
 

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ASM PAT-1 and PAT-2.

Argentinian PAT-1(Proyectil Argentino Teledirigido)anti ship missile ,PAT-2 was a cruise missile based on Germany V-1 missile .


(...)


The pictures are from this book (see p.176 to 181)
 
ASM PAT-1 and PAT-2.

Argentinian PAT-1(Proyectil Argentino Teledirigido)anti ship missile ,PAT-2 was a cruise missile based on Germany V-1 missile .


(...)


The pictures are from this book (see p.176 to 181)

That book is from 2007, there are many previous books and magazines where those photos previously appeared.

Actually those photos are from the FMA, FAA and EA archive.

One of the PAT-1 prototypes is exhibited at the Colegio Militar de la Nación, where the officers of the Argentine Army (EA) are trained.

As an example, previous publications to that book:
 

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The pictures are from this book (see p.176 to 181)

That book is from 2007, there are many previous books and magazines where those photos previously appeared.

Actually those photos are from the FMA, FAA and EA archive.

One of the PAT-1 prototypes is exhibited at the Colegio Militar de la Nación, where the officers of the Argentine Army (EA) are trained.

As an example, previous publications to that book:

Thank you for this additional information
 
First photo: Chamical, Argentina, 1988. Preparatory to the launch of the Condor I missile. The project Condor I/II was canceled by the government of Carlos Menem.

Second Photo: A full-scale model of the Còndor II. When the Menem government disarmed the project, the CIA people took everything to the base in Rota, in Spain, and from there to total destruction in Langley, Virginia.

Third Photo: A very interesting book about Condor II Project written by Pablo de León, an Argentine Aerospace Engineer who works in the US designing, developing and testing space suits for NASA.

The book is based on a doctoral thesis written by Pablo de Leon, for his Doctorate in History from the University of San Andres in Argentina, entitled:

El Proyecto Misilistico Condór - Su origen, desarrollo y cancelacion / The Condór Missile Project - Its origin, development and cancellation

You can download it from this link:
 

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Can you expand on your comment about the CIA taking this missile to Spain and then Virginia? It seems absurd. Second, I did not know anything about Pablo de León and his involvement in designing spacesuits in the US. Where would he get the knowledge to qualify for such work?
 
Can you expand on your comment about the CIA taking this missile to Spain and then Virginia? It seems absurd. Second, I did not know anything about Pablo de León and his involvement in designing spacesuits in the US. Where would he get the knowledge to qualify for such work?

About the CIA and the destruction of hardware of Condor II, I translate the comment of Pablo De León in his Book and this group of facebook:


Desarrollo Aeroespacial Argentino - Pasado, Presente y Futuro


About Pablo de León:




 
Thank you. I am translating the first entry. It is interesting to see the founding of the International Space University in 1986. I also grew up in the 1960s during the race to the moon. I would imagine designing spacesuits for Mars would be highly classified work.
 
Juan Ignacio San Martín

Hace 70 años, en mayo de 1950, se lanzó por primera vez el cohete tele dirigido motorizado AM-1 “Tábano” que actuaba como una bomba aire-aire.. El lanzamiento en las Salinas Grandes, fue filmado desde un avión Spitfire PR.Mk.XI fotográfico con matricula civil LV-MNZ al mando del suboficial Villegas que volaba detrás del IA-24 Calquin, piloteado por el Capitán Edmundo Weiss, que portaba en su zona ventral el AM-1. El combustible del Tábano era ácido nítrico y anilina. Al juntarse en el compresor del cohete estos dos elementos, se producía el encendido y se disparaba.

70 years ago, in May 1950, the AM-1 "Tábano" motorized tele-directed rocket that acted like an air-to-air bomb was first launched. The launch in the Salinas Grandes, Córdoba, was filmed from a Spitfire PRMk.XI with civil registration LV-MNZ commanded by Petty Officer Villegas who was flying behind IA-24 Calquin, piloted by Captain Edmundo Weiss, who carries AM-1 in his ventral area. The Tabano's fuel was nitric acid and aniline. When these two elements are brought together in the rocket compressor, the ignition occurs and it was launched.


Calquin y Tabano.jpg
 
The (French) text says, that it is a missile, built for the Argentine Navy,
that "only remained a curiosity".
Looks like a manned aerodynamic testbed to me. Perhaps knowing the
source of that article would help ? (seems not to be Le Fana)
 
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An attempt to translate the relevant part:
"opposite below <reffering to the pages of the source>, an odd
remotely controlled aerodynamic missile, designed to be used by
the Argentine Navy, but that in the end only ended up under the
trees of this Argentinian museum"

Dilandu is right , I think, IIRC the Soviet KS-1/AS-1 Kennel was tested
as a manned aircraft, too. It's just, that this one here don't give the impression,
that piloting it from inside that cockpit would have been a very good idea ...
 
The Skua!, i got a bit frustrated after long searches regarding information about it, mainly because of the name, a lot of sources confuse it with the Sea Skua (supposedly a missile that was homologated in the Argentine Lynx helicopters although it didn't really made it overseas).
25.jpg
Born out of a requirement for 2 missiles for the COAN (Naval Aviation COmmand), one was an ASM/AshM, while the other was an AAM, both started development at the same time and were under the same company CIETFA, as fas as i remember getting info about it, the Skua used a modified AIM-9 seeker and it had a few modifications to make it...i guess a bit better?, a couple of reasons ended up in its cancellation while it was undergoing flight and other tests.

Its brother, the Martin Pescador, was the one that lived on. The MP was comparable to the US Bullpup missile, as it was required to be manually guided by the pilot. This missile was pretty simple for the time and ended up being more as a training tool for both COAN and CITEFA on how to use, field and work on ASM, it was never used in combat, but it saw being fitted to various platforms like the T-28, Mb.326, Ia.58 Pucara and UH-1D Huey (wire guided version).
Copia de escanear0007.jpg

Ill throw a bonus here for you, cause there is another installment on the MP family, the Bigua...again...it used the same name that was given to an Air Launched drone that was tested in the Pucara, so searching for it is a pain in the rear, the Bigua is essentially an elongated Martin Pescador, this time it wasn't done by CITEFA, but by another company, TENSA. The missile itself was meant for Ground-Ground use, it had a longer range and it kept the simplicity of the original.
misilBigua.jpg
Why this missiles never made it onto the A-4s or Mirage Vs...i really dont know, maybe they weren't as advanced ? or they didn't justify the spending? (The mirages had an awful experience with the AS.20/30). Personally i see that missile more in the realms of being an ATGM or a Short range Anti Air missile.
 
The Skua!, i got a bit frustrated after long searches regarding information about it, mainly because of the name, a lot of sources confuse it with the Sea Skua (supposedly a missile that was homologated in the Argentine Lynx helicopters although it didn't really made it overseas).
View attachment 659590
Born out of a requirement for 2 missiles for the COAN (Naval Aviation COmmand), one was an ASM/AshM, while the other was an AAM, both started development at the same time and were under the same company CIETFA, as fas as i remember getting info about it, the Skua used a modified AIM-9 seeker and it had a few modifications to make it...i guess a bit better?, a couple of reasons ended up in its cancellation while it was undergoing flight and other tests.

Its brother, the Martin Pescador, was the one that lived on. The MP was comparable to the US Bullpup missile, as it was required to be manually guided by the pilot. This missile was pretty simple for the time and ended up being more as a training tool for both COAN and CITEFA on how to use, field and work on ASM, it was never used in combat, but it saw being fitted to various platforms like the T-28, Mb.326, Ia.58 Pucara and UH-1D Huey (wire guided version).
View attachment 659591

Ill throw a bonus here for you, cause there is another installment on the MP family, the Bigua...again...it used the same name that was given to an Air Launched drone that was tested in the Pucara, so searching for it is a pain in the rear, the Bigua is essentially an elongated Martin Pescador, this time it wasn't done by CITEFA, but by another company, TENSA. The missile itself was meant for Ground-Ground use, it had a longer range and it kept the simplicity of the original.
View attachment 659592
Why this missiles never made it onto the A-4s or Mirage Vs...i really dont know, maybe they weren't as advanced ? or they didn't justify the spending? (The mirages had an awful experience with the AS.20/30). Personally i see that missile more in the realms of being an ATGM or a Short range Anti Air missile.
Do you know any specifications (dimensions, weight etc.) of the Skua air-to-air missile?

Piotr
 
The Skua!, i got a bit frustrated after long searches regarding information about it, mainly because of the name, a lot of sources confuse it with the Sea Skua (supposedly a missile that was homologated in the Argentine Lynx helicopters although it didn't really made it overseas).
View attachment 659590
Born out of a requirement for 2 missiles for the COAN (Naval Aviation COmmand), one was an ASM/AshM, while the other was an AAM, both started development at the same time and were under the same company CIETFA, as fas as i remember getting info about it, the Skua used a modified AIM-9 seeker and it had a few modifications to make it...i guess a bit better?, a couple of reasons ended up in its cancellation while it was undergoing flight and other tests.

Its brother, the Martin Pescador, was the one that lived on. The MP was comparable to the US Bullpup missile, as it was required to be manually guided by the pilot. This missile was pretty simple for the time and ended up being more as a training tool for both COAN and CITEFA on how to use, field and work on ASM, it was never used in combat, but it saw being fitted to various platforms like the T-28, Mb.326, Ia.58 Pucara and UH-1D Huey (wire guided version).
View attachment 659591

Ill throw a bonus here for you, cause there is another installment on the MP family, the Bigua...again...it used the same name that was given to an Air Launched drone that was tested in the Pucara, so searching for it is a pain in the rear, the Bigua is essentially an elongated Martin Pescador, this time it wasn't done by CITEFA, but by another company, TENSA. The missile itself was meant for Ground-Ground use, it had a longer range and it kept the simplicity of the original.
View attachment 659592
Why this missiles never made it onto the A-4s or Mirage Vs...i really dont know, maybe they weren't as advanced ? or they didn't justify the spending? (The mirages had an awful experience with the AS.20/30). Personally i see that missile more in the realms of being an ATGM or a Short range Anti Air missile.
Do you know any specifications (dimensions, weight etc.) of the Skua air-to-air missile?

Piotr
Sadly after all my efforts searching around the internet, the only thing I found was a bit of story and some pictures. Much like with the Bigua, it’s specs and information are extremely obscure, although an example of the skua survives at CITEDEF (ex-CITEFA). I guess some information could be in the T-28 book by Nuñez Padin, but I’m not sure, as I don’t have that book.
 
Sadly after all my efforts searching around the internet, the only thing I found was a bit of story and some pictures. Much like with the Bigua, it’s specs and information are extremely obscure, although an example of the skua survives at CITEDEF (ex-CITEFA). I guess some information could be in the T-28 book by Nuñez Padin, but I’m not sure, as I don’t have that book.
In the video some photos may be seen that apparently come from a book (here you've got a screenshot from the video). Do you know what book it is?

Piotr
 

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Sadly after all my efforts searching around the internet, the only thing I found was a bit of story and some pictures. Much like with the Bigua, it’s specs and information are extremely obscure, although an example of the skua survives at CITEDEF (ex-CITEFA). I guess some information could be in the T-28 book by Nuñez Padin, but I’m not sure, as I don’t have that book.
In the video some photos may be seen that apparently come from a book (here you've got a screenshot from the video). Do you know what book it is?

Piotr
Yes, thats taken from here
Boceto tapa.jpg
I dont have this specific number, although im searching for it (or its older version).
 
The last i swear!
Copia de IMG_8917 2.JPG
2 Examples fitted to a UH-1 Huey
It was intended to also be fitted to the A.109 Hirundos (and it was seen on some airshows as exposed armament)

a109at_i-dvcm.jpg SWiring.jpg
There is also the mention of an H.500 being fitted with it, but i found nothing on that.

As a Bonus...it also made an appearance with the Pucara Charlie!
58C5.jpg
Dont let the Matra Magic behind it get all the attention! (there is also something about Matra 550s and A-4s around)
 
A text about the development and testing of the Martin Pescador missile, at the request of the COAN, extracted from the book on the MB-326 in the Argentine Navy. The other text talks about the type of attack missions that MB-326 would carry out with this missile in the extreme south of Argentina.

IMG_20210705_152707.jpg

IMG_20210705_152848.jpg
 
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Friends, here I share the most complete study on the Condor II missile project.
As it is a university thesis, it has copyright but its access is public and free, in addition to the author's authorization to upload it to the internet, it can be downloaded for free from the University website.

El Proyecto Misilístico Cóndor / The Condor Missile Project

Su Origen, Desarrollo y Cancelación / Its Origin, Development and Cancellation

Autor: Pablo de León / Author: Pablo de León

Tesis de Doctorado de la Universidad de San Andrés / Doctoral Thesis of the University of San Andrés
 

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