yasotay

ACCESS: Top Secret
Top Contributor
Senior Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2006
Messages
2,905
Reaction score
1,649
I have heard though that the AH-64E's are maintenance hogs, verging on (and sometimes going over) the edge of becoming hanger queens. They are certainly quite reliant on COTS components and associated Just In Time supply chains. And that's even before you get near a maritime environment, with all that entails.
LOL - Apaches have always been Hanger Queens. If anything they are on the verge of being named Hanger Empress. They make the Chinook look like a stalwart of readiness and full functionality.
 

RavenOne

ACCESS: Secret
Joined
Jun 18, 2008
Messages
483
Reaction score
849
Shephard understands that the German federal government has asked its US counterpart for information about the Boeing AH-64 Apache attack helicopter.


Just under 4 decades ago, the Germans, came close / pen hovering over the dotted line to ordering the AH-64A. They were so impressed especially when one of the first ones came to visit SHAPE Hq in Belgium. I met the guy at Heli Expo 2018, who is a retired army aviator Lt Col who worked In the US Army AH-64 Program Office in the 80s.

Also on different occasions, Bell offered the Bell 249 four bladed Cobra with one went to Buckeberg for trials in early 80s, then early 90s ..tried marketing the AH1W 4BW (same time as offered for our Attack Helicopter competition which went to AH-64D) as PAH-2 (images from my wife’s books)

As it happened...due to politics, Tigre was chosen for obvious political reasons.

The Spaniards were potential customer for the AH-64 in the Late 80s, but as it happened like the above ....they declined

2106EDC4-8FC2-4DA1-9E97-FE43F5310173.jpeg 32D2669A-4103-48BD-84F7-531067252541.jpeg 18351D38-B27A-4EB1-A4DA-077BC2CAF0C8.jpeg
 
Last edited:

fightingirish

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Jun 3, 2006
Messages
2,550
Reaction score
1,250

RavenOne

ACCESS: Secret
Joined
Jun 18, 2008
Messages
483
Reaction score
849
That picture of the AH-1W (4BW) in German markings is from the German book Bell AH-1 "Cobra" by Alexander Luedeke (Nickname: luedo34)
Link:
www.amazon.com/Bell-AH-1-Cobra-Alexander-L%C3%BCdeke/dp/3613034573/ref=sr_1_14?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1431886430&sr=1-14
See also my post regarding Bell's PAH-2 earlier proposal from the 80's.
Link: https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/th...-the-tiger-attack-helicopter.207/#post-251083

I know :) also slightly digressing around the mid 80s, Schweizer offered the TH-300 Osage tot he Heeresflieger as possible replacement of the Alouette II fleet at Bückeberg. At the 1986 Hannover Airshow, it was announced The TH-300 would be powered with a German built Porsche Radical piston engine if the 300C was selected.

Also digressing to Australia, few years ago Bell signed contract with BAE Systems Australia to team up w.r.t pitching both Viper / Venom




another agreement for the Tiger was signed

 

Basil

ACCESS: Secret
Joined
Aug 10, 2009
Messages
294
Reaction score
82
That picture of the AH-1W (4BW) in German markings is from the German book Bell AH-1 "Cobra" by Alexander Luedeke (Nickname: luedo34)
Link:
www.amazon.com/Bell-AH-1-Cobra-Alexander-L%C3%BCdeke/dp/3613034573/ref=sr_1_14?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1431886430&sr=1-14
See also my post regarding Bell's PAH-2 earlier proposal from the 80's.
Link: https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/th...-the-tiger-attack-helicopter.207/#post-251083

Btw, the mentioned book (Luedeke) is one of the best books about the Cobra having seen so far.
 

Basil

ACCESS: Secret
Joined
Aug 10, 2009
Messages
294
Reaction score
82
"At the 1986 Hannover Airshow, it was announced The TH-300 would be powered with a German built Porsche Radical piston engine if the 300C was selected."

RavenOne, do you have any information about the mentioned Porsche engine?
 

RavenOne

ACCESS: Secret
Joined
Jun 18, 2008
Messages
483
Reaction score
849
That picture of the AH-1W (4BW) in German markings is from the German book Bell AH-1 "Cobra" by Alexander Luedeke (Nickname: luedo34)
Link:
www.amazon.com/Bell-AH-1-Cobra-Alexander-L%C3%BCdeke/dp/3613034573/ref=sr_1_14?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1431886430&sr=1-14
See also my post regarding Bell's PAH-2 earlier proposal from the 80's.
Link: https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/th...-the-tiger-attack-helicopter.207/#post-251083

Btw, the mentioned book (Luedeke) is one of the best books about the Cobra having seen so far.

Agreed also Mike Verier’s book Cobra is an excellent reference.

cheers
 

RavenOne

ACCESS: Secret
Joined
Jun 18, 2008
Messages
483
Reaction score
849
"At the 1986 Hannover Airshow, it was announced The TH-300 would be powered with a German built Porsche Radical piston engine if the 300C was selected."

RavenOne, do you have any information about the mentioned Porsche engine?

I saw this Info back in Paul Beavers book on Military Helicopters published 86/87.

No I was going to ask if anyone on here has any info on the Schweitzer proposal, even. Enter if there’s an artists impression marketing material from Schweitzer of a 300C in Heeresflieger Markings.
 

yasotay

ACCESS: Top Secret
Top Contributor
Senior Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2006
Messages
2,905
Reaction score
1,649
I would not be surprised at all to see Germany take on AH-64E. With a very mature logistics network already in place in Europe the Heersfliger could tap right in with little issue. Just to stir the pot a bit, I wonder if the German aero-industry is looking to break out of the Euro-centric situation they have bound themselves to, for the most part, these last few decades?

Also Thanks to RavenOne for access to the Aussie White Paper.
 

Basil

ACCESS: Secret
Joined
Aug 10, 2009
Messages
294
Reaction score
82
Agreed also Mike Verier’s book Cobra is an excellent reference.

cheers
[/QUOTE]

Yes, absolutely. I have both books.
 

Basil

ACCESS: Secret
Joined
Aug 10, 2009
Messages
294
Reaction score
82
"At the 1986 Hannover Airshow, it was announced The TH-300 would be powered with a German built Porsche Radical piston engine if the 300C was selected."

RavenOne, do you have any information about the mentioned Porsche engine?

I saw this Info back in Paul Beavers book on Military Helicopters published 86/87.

No I was going to ask if anyone on here has any info on the Schweitzer proposal, even. Enter if there’s an artists impression marketing material from Schweitzer of a 300C in Heeresflieger Markings.


In the late 1980s I read in a german magazine ("Hobby") that Porsche was then examining to adapt its V6 formula 1 engine in a derated version as a propulsion unit for civil helicopters. Of course nothing came out of this idea.
 

TomcatViP

Hellcat
Joined
Feb 12, 2017
Messages
4,812
Reaction score
4,329
 

Firefinder

ACCESS: Secret
Joined
Oct 6, 2019
Messages
218
Reaction score
332
Likely the older block 1 and 2 nearing their end of service life, some of those birds are pushing almost 22 years old at this point.
 

TomcatViP

Hellcat
Joined
Feb 12, 2017
Messages
4,812
Reaction score
4,329
It's an amazing program. Now some parts are going to be regenerated when economically viable for new built airframes.
 

yasotay

ACCESS: Top Secret
Top Contributor
Senior Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2006
Messages
2,905
Reaction score
1,649
Have to keep Boeing Mesa going somehow.

Less snarky, most of those platforms have made multiple trips to unforgiving parts of the planet. Many of them collected extra holes along the way.
 

marauder2048

"I should really just relax"
Joined
Nov 19, 2013
Messages
3,158
Reaction score
523
Likely the older block 1 and 2 nearing their end of service life, some of those birds are pushing almost 22 years old at this point.

IOW AH-64D rebuilds vs. new build?
 

yasotay

ACCESS: Top Secret
Top Contributor
Senior Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2006
Messages
2,905
Reaction score
1,649
I have no issue really with the intent to develop newer airframes, but I do note that the article talks of demilitarizing Apaches, but does not anywhere point out anything about "replacing" Apaches.
 

Grey Havoc

ACCESS: USAP
Senior Member
Joined
Oct 9, 2009
Messages
17,002
Reaction score
6,638
Less snarky, most of those platforms have made multiple trips to unforgiving parts of the planet. Many of them collected extra holes along the way.

I suspect that the fad during that time for COTS and the like didn't help matters either.
 

TomcatViP

Hellcat
Joined
Feb 12, 2017
Messages
4,812
Reaction score
4,329
Modernized Tiger offer for Australia rejected opening the path for an FMS deal of Ah-64E. Airbus double down on low prices and extra bonus (read below):


Notice how, a nation in Europe, is offering to let go some Tiger back to Airbus that they can be given as a bonus to cement this deal...
I would love to hear the WTO say about this alleged "dumping".
 

GTX

All hail the God of Frustration!!!
Staff member
Senior Member
Joined
Apr 15, 2006
Messages
3,846
Reaction score
2,399
Website
beyondthesprues.com
I wouldn't worry - Airbus's chances of winning this are incredibly low. They are 'on the nose' with Army.
 

JohnR

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Sep 8, 2006
Messages
790
Reaction score
264
How will the AH64E compare to the earlier models in terms of their 'Hangar Queen" status?

I have to admit I have always preferred the later models of the AH1's (purely on aesthetic grounds), how do they actually compare to the AH64.
 

Forest Green

ACCESS: Top Secret
Joined
Jun 11, 2019
Messages
815
Reaction score
612
Modernized Tiger offer for Australia rejected opening the path for an FMS deal of Ah-64E. Airbus double down on low prices and extra bonus (read below):


Notice how, a nation in Europe, is offering to let go some Tiger back to Airbus that they can be given as a bonus to cement this deal...
I would love to hear the WTO say about this alleged "dumping".
Not much of an endorsement if people are giving them away.
 

yasotay

ACCESS: Top Secret
Top Contributor
Senior Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2006
Messages
2,905
Reaction score
1,649
It really does not look good for the Aussie Tiger. Also supposing there is a significant maritime requirement, if AH-64E is at the front of the list, Boeing must be offering it at a significant mark down. I like others thought this an obvious case for the AH-1Z.
 

GTX

All hail the God of Frustration!!!
Staff member
Senior Member
Joined
Apr 15, 2006
Messages
3,846
Reaction score
2,399
Website
beyondthesprues.com
It really does not look good for the Aussie Tiger. Also supposing there is a significant maritime requirement, if AH-64E is at the front of the list, Boeing must be offering it at a significant mark down. I like others thought this an obvious case for the AH-1Z.

From what I understand, the Australian Army wants the Apache...they just need to convince their political masters now...

That said, I believe BAE Systems/Bell will put forward an extremely attractive industrial solution which will be challenging to beat.
 
Last edited:

fightingirish

ACCESS: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Jun 3, 2006
Messages
2,550
Reaction score
1,250

Volkodav

I really should change my personal text
Joined
Mar 28, 2014
Messages
434
Reaction score
566
I have heard though that the AH-64E's are maintenance hogs, verging on (and sometimes going over) the edge of becoming hanger queens. They are certainly quite reliant on COTS components and associated Just In Time supply chains. And that's even before you get near a maritime environment, with all that entails.
LOL - Apaches have always been Hanger Queens. If anything they are on the verge of being named Hanger Empress. They make the Chinook look like a stalwart of readiness and full functionality.
This was clearly stated to Australian Army Aviation personnel as recently as 2019. They were told loud and clear by the people who actually maintain and operate the Echos that it would be more difficult and expensive to maintain than the much maligned Tiger, as well as providing lower availability levels unless a much larger fleet was procured.

Flash forward and Australia has ordered the Echo to replace the Tiger........
 

Grey Havoc

ACCESS: USAP
Senior Member
Joined
Oct 9, 2009
Messages
17,002
Reaction score
6,638
In other words the poor ADF are about to have yet another disaster on their already overfilling plates.
 

Volkodav

I really should change my personal text
Joined
Mar 28, 2014
Messages
434
Reaction score
566
In other words the poor ADF are about to have yet another disaster on their already overfilling plates.
Potentially, FMS (foreign military sales) has significant benefits as does the close relationship between the ADF and US military, but there are significant disadvantages too. The Tiger has superior performance to the Apache, is more survivable, more manoeuvrable, has been certified on the LHDs and despite the bad press, has been performing extremely well in service.

My greatest concern is the unknown unknowns of introducing a new type into service, combined with the fact that more suitable new types are due to enter service around the time the Apache will achieve FOC. Had the Tiger been upgraded and retained in service it would have dovetailed nicely into the US Armys FARA program, the Apache however will have only recently achieved FOC and be years away from replacement.
 

Colonial-Marine

Fighting the UAV mafia.
Joined
Oct 5, 2009
Messages
784
Reaction score
135
In other words the poor ADF are about to have yet another disaster on their already overfilling plates.
Potentially, FMS (foreign military sales) has significant benefits as does the close relationship between the ADF and US military, but there are significant disadvantages too. The Tiger has superior performance to the Apache, is more survivable, more manoeuvrable, has been certified on the LHDs and despite the bad press, has been performing extremely well in service.

My greatest concern is the unknown unknowns of introducing a new type into service, combined with the fact that more suitable new types are due to enter service around the time the Apache will achieve FOC. Had the Tiger been upgraded and retained in service it would have dovetailed nicely into the US Armys FARA program, the Apache however will have only recently achieved FOC and be years away from replacement.
More survivable? How so? I don't know the defensive avionics suite of the Tiger but the one on the AH-64E is very up to date. I suppose the Tiger is a bit more nimble down in the weeds but the Apache is going to have a greater payload.

The Apache will require at least the same amount of maintenance work but unless Boeing horribly screws things up (not beyond the realm of possibility) there shouldn't be a problem with the ADF getting the spares and support from the manufacturer which seems to be where the Australians were having the most difficulty with their Tigers.

Waiting for FARA would have been an option I suppose but it seems the ADF definitely wants more of an attack helicopter than a reconnaissance one.
 

Volkodav

I really should change my personal text
Joined
Mar 28, 2014
Messages
434
Reaction score
566
In other words the poor ADF are about to have yet another disaster on their already overfilling plates.
Potentially, FMS (foreign military sales) has significant benefits as does the close relationship between the ADF and US military, but there are significant disadvantages too. The Tiger has superior performance to the Apache, is more survivable, more manoeuvrable, has been certified on the LHDs and despite the bad press, has been performing extremely well in service.

My greatest concern is the unknown unknowns of introducing a new type into service, combined with the fact that more suitable new types are due to enter service around the time the Apache will achieve FOC. Had the Tiger been upgraded and retained in service it would have dovetailed nicely into the US Armys FARA program, the Apache however will have only recently achieved FOC and be years away from replacement.
More survivable? How so? I don't know the defensive avionics suite of the Tiger but the one on the AH-64E is very up to date. I suppose the Tiger is a bit more nimble down in the weeds but the Apache is going to have a greater payload.

The Apache will require at least the same amount of maintenance work but unless Boeing horribly screws things up (not beyond the realm of possibility) there shouldn't be a problem with the ADF getting the spares and support from the manufacturer which seems to be where the Australians were having the most difficulty with their Tigers.

Waiting for FARA would have been an option I suppose but it seems the ADF definitely wants more of an attack helicopter than a reconnaissance one.
As it stands right now the Tiger is more capable than the AH-1Z and AH-64D and more reliable and serviceable than the AH-64E. Its composite airframe is more durable, it is safer in a crash (as unfortunately demonstrated during Australias selection process). The airframe is a generation (or more) ahead of the competition, hence its greater performance, despite lower maximum weights. Its optics are first rate, better by the accounts of some I know who have experience on Tiger and the US / UK types.

As for the bad press, there seems to be about a five to seven year lag between occurrence and reporting there of. Basically as the bad news comes out the problem has usually been fixed. The media doesn't ever seem get the concept of "overtaken by events", i.e. they report bad serviceability at a time when availability and performance is the best it has ever been and getting better, they drive a narrative that the platform needs to be replaced urgently at the time US Army Aviation are telling Australian Army Aviation that the Echo is a maintenance hog that has yet to meet expectations and they wish they had something like Tiger, hence the FARA program.

The irony of the situation I was trying to get across was Australia, having managed to introduce and grow a highly developmental armed reconnaissance helicopter into a viable capability, decides to replace it with an aging attack helicopter design from the 1970s, just as the parent service of that platform is looking to develop an advanced armed reconnaissance design more along the lines of the Tiger..
 

TomcatViP

Hellcat
Joined
Feb 12, 2017
Messages
4,812
Reaction score
4,329
I don't know what kind of sensor you are comparing b/w what generation of ah-64D and the Tiger, but this is not what Operational feeds are suggesting.

Also, if availability might have improved a bit, the only spectacular aspect of a jump from below 10% to under 50% is only that there are some ppl at Airbus for promoting it.
 
Last edited:

yasotay

ACCESS: Top Secret
Top Contributor
Senior Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2006
Messages
2,905
Reaction score
1,649
I was not aware that Tigre had a mast mounted multi-mode radar, nor the ability to operate uav. It would be nice to have access to some of the positive reports from the Austrailian Army, as all I have seen is the Army wanting out of Tigre.
 

GTX

All hail the God of Frustration!!!
Staff member
Senior Member
Joined
Apr 15, 2006
Messages
3,846
Reaction score
2,399
Website
beyondthesprues.com
The issue with Australia is that there have been a long history of problems with the Tiger (yes, many were overcome but the bad taste lingers...). Airbus have not helped themselves with either this or the MRH90 (the other Army platform they support) and have been a constant source of frustration. It came to a head during the Land 4503 program when Airbus did not even offer the Army the minimum requirement requested - instead of the 29 single type platforms requested, their offer was 22 Updated Tigers plus 7 EC-145M. Moreover, the Tiger Mk III program they were offering was seen as very much a developmental program. Some thing the Army wanted to avoid.

As to the replacement of the Tiger armed reconnaissance helicopter (ARH) with the AH-64E attack helicopter design, it's actually more in line with the rest of the modernisation going on with the Australian Army. If you look at the following:
  • ARH Tiger replaced by AH-64E Apache
  • ASLAV replaced by Boxer CRV
  • M1A1 likely to be replaced by M1A2C (aka M1A2SEP V3)
  • Addition of M1074 JAB & M1150 ABV
  • Likely addition of AS9/AS10 Hunstman
  • Future acquisition of MLRS probably in the form of something such as the M142 HIMARS
  • Expansion of M88 fleet
  • Replacement of M113 by either KF41 Lynx or AS21 Redback
  • Addition of Special Forces Helicopters under Land 2097Ph4
The Australian army is going 'heavy'. It also places a high premium on interoperability with major Allies such as the USA. In this context the AH-64E decision makes sense. Add to that its Airbus competitor 'shooting' themselves in the foot...
 
Last edited:

GTX

All hail the God of Frustration!!!
Staff member
Senior Member
Joined
Apr 15, 2006
Messages
3,846
Reaction score
2,399
Website
beyondthesprues.com
I was not aware that Tigre had a mast mounted multi-mode radar, nor the ability to operate uav. It would be nice to have access to some of the positive reports from the Austrailian Army, as all I have seen is the Army wanting out of Tigre.
First I have heard of a Tigre mast mounted multi-mode radar. The only such sensor I am aware of is the Osiris sight/sensor which has optical TV and thermal cameras, plus a laser range finder/tracker/designator:

1920px-74%2B53_German_Army_Eurocopter_EC_665_Tiger_Osiris_Mast_ILA_Berlin_2016_08.jpg


This is only used on the German UHT variant.

I don't believe even the Tiger Mk III program proposed such a system.
 

Firefinder

ACCESS: Secret
Joined
Oct 6, 2019
Messages
218
Reaction score
332
Honestly despite the Apache being an utter Hanger Queen it has one thing that the Tiger lacks that been the biggest complait that the Austrailian Army has had it with it as I understand it.

Getting a fucking spare part supples for it.

All helicopters need a fair solid spare part source to keep it running. Without that it's a dangerous unreliable flying blender.

In theory the Tiger is more reliable then the Apache, this is true.

But in ACTUALITY the Apache has more up time then the Tiger cause its is not waiting for a part to come in. Cause it does not matter how reliable it is if you cant fix the thing when it does brake.

Which it will.

Say what you want about Boeing, and there Novels worth to say, but their Spare Parts Department is on point.

So while you may be paying more per flight hour, it even out since you crews can you know...

Actually get flight time like you paying them for. Which is worth it cost wise no matter how you slice it.

Doesn't matter how cheap and reliable it is when no one can work it when need it cause they lack the parts or worse the Experaince to do so...
 

yasotay

ACCESS: Top Secret
Top Contributor
Senior Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2006
Messages
2,905
Reaction score
1,649
@GTX - unless I am mistaken there is no radar for Tigre. That was me being cynical.

@Firefinder - as the Australian government is working with Boeing on a loyal wingman project to be built in country, perhaps part of the Apache deal is to be able to produce some of the high utilization parts in Australia(?) I would imagine their had to be some incentives from Boeing thrown in to get the political types happy. In this case it would be a smart move. This is of course, supposition on my part.
 

GTX

All hail the God of Frustration!!!
Staff member
Senior Member
Joined
Apr 15, 2006
Messages
3,846
Reaction score
2,399
Website
beyondthesprues.com
@GTX - unless I am mistaken there is no radar for Tigre. That was me being cynical.
Ah ok.

@Firefinder - as the Australian government is working with Boeing on a loyal wingman project to be built in country, perhaps part of the Apache deal is to be able to produce some of the high utilization parts in Australia(?) I would imagine their had to be some incentives from Boeing thrown in to get the political types happy. In this case it would be a smart move. This is of course, supposition on my part.
I don't believe local production of any parts is part of the Land 4503 deal. That said it is still being negotiated. the ability to provide local sustainment support is a big deal though with key systems needing local support - e.g. engines.
 

Volkodav

I really should change my personal text
Joined
Mar 28, 2014
Messages
434
Reaction score
566
Mmmm.... ok so basically if parts holding was increased, experience of the work force increased, reparable parts support was improved, contractor support increased (including taking over some functions previously handled by defence), recruitment and retention of staff improved, there would be no improvement in availability? Massive efforts and strides were made in deep level maintenance, aircraft repair and repairable parts support in recent years. Personnel who cut their teeth on Tiger as new technicians are now sergeants and warrant officers, engineering officers are coming back for their third and fourth posting on the type. All of this institutional knowledge will be lost with any new platform.

Some of you must have extremely comfortable armchairs to be so knowledgeable about a platform most if not all of you have never seen in the metal, let alone worked on. Disclaimer here, I do not nor have I ever worked for Airbus, I have no bonus or financial interest, I did however have sufficient exposure to the project to realise that everything I thought about the platform (which wasn't far off the uninformed opinions being expressed here) was completely wrong.

I am however an Australian tax payer who can envision that the ADF has spent big to get the project on track only to throw it all away and as a result either delay the acquisition of a new generation or have to spend extra and replace the replacement early. If it sounds like I'm getting a bit annoyed its because I am. I can see the repeat of the standard Australian defence procurement of going for and stuffing up the bleeding edge option, then going for and stuffing up the easy / cheap option. The biggest single issue in Australian defence procurement is subpar contracts, poorly conceived, poorly written, poorly executed and poorly managed buy lots of people with MBAs but no real world major project experience. Its not which platform is selected so much that counts, its whether the brains trust has adequately estimated and provided for the necessary support systems.

Reality check, the Apache acquisition will have issues as any acquisition does, it will cost more and take longer than expected. For those who think Airbus are bad, it should be noted that Boeing were also supporting the Tiger and lost the contract about three years ago under CASGs new performance based contracting model. For the actual project it was pretty much a case of most people just changing the logo on their polo shirts.

Should Tiger have been acquired in the first place, probably not, my preferred option would have been Cobra in the 70s, failing that, Seacobra in the 80s or 90s, or possibly a joint Mangusta / Lynx acquisition in the 90s or 2000s. i.e. something good enough one to or three decades earlier. It didn't happen and Tiger was selected, with its early problems it could, maybe even should have been cancelled and replaced with a FMS option, but this didn't happen either. Now when defence is stretched with the introduction of multiple (often long over due) projects, they are replacing a helicopter that has achieved FOC and has (belatedly) met, even exceeded, promised capability, while retaining another (MRH-90) that is much more of a maintenance hog, has major caveats over its use, and is nowhere near meeting promised performance. It is so bad that airframes assigned to other missions have been withdrawn (requiring the acquisition of another type to replace it in those missions) and added to the aircraft pool and a different type has been acquired for training, so the operational squadrons can finally get enough birds in the air to meet operational requirements.
 

TomcatViP

Hellcat
Joined
Feb 12, 2017
Messages
4,812
Reaction score
4,329
The mast mounted optical turret got cancelled from vibration issues.
The roof mounted gyrostabilized sensor took over afterward.
I don't think that it makes much difference. The issue is with the quality of the sensor that is under par with what an Apache can offer (hence my post above inquiring what was the Apache used for the alleged comparison).
 

Similar threads

Top