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AH-64 Apache Projects

yasotay

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I have heard though that the AH-64E's are maintenance hogs, verging on (and sometimes going over) the edge of becoming hanger queens. They are certainly quite reliant on COTS components and associated Just In Time supply chains. And that's even before you get near a maritime environment, with all that entails.
LOL - Apaches have always been Hanger Queens. If anything they are on the verge of being named Hanger Empress. They make the Chinook look like a stalwart of readiness and full functionality.
 

RavenOne

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Shephard understands that the German federal government has asked its US counterpart for information about the Boeing AH-64 Apache attack helicopter.


Just under 4 decades ago, the Germans, came close / pen hovering over the dotted line to ordering the AH-64A. They were so impressed especially when one of the first ones came to visit SHAPE Hq in Belgium. I met the guy at Heli Expo 2018, who is a retired army aviator Lt Col who worked In the US Army AH-64 Program Office in the 80s.

Also on different occasions, Bell offered the Bell 249 four bladed Cobra with one went to Buckeberg for trials in early 80s, then early 90s ..tried marketing the AH1W 4BW (same time as offered for our Attack Helicopter competition which went to AH-64D) as PAH-2 (images from my wife’s books)

As it happened...due to politics, Tigre was chosen for obvious political reasons.

The Spaniards were potential customer for the AH-64 in the Late 80s, but as it happened like the above ....they declined

2106EDC4-8FC2-4DA1-9E97-FE43F5310173.jpeg 32D2669A-4103-48BD-84F7-531067252541.jpeg 18351D38-B27A-4EB1-A4DA-077BC2CAF0C8.jpeg
 
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fightingirish

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RavenOne

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That picture of the AH-1W (4BW) in German markings is from the German book Bell AH-1 "Cobra" by Alexander Luedeke (Nickname: luedo34)
Link:
www.amazon.com/Bell-AH-1-Cobra-Alexander-L%C3%BCdeke/dp/3613034573/ref=sr_1_14?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1431886430&sr=1-14
See also my post regarding Bell's PAH-2 earlier proposal from the 80's.
Link: https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/th...-the-tiger-attack-helicopter.207/#post-251083

I know :) also slightly digressing around the mid 80s, Schweizer offered the TH-300 Osage tot he Heeresflieger as possible replacement of the Alouette II fleet at Bückeberg. At the 1986 Hannover Airshow, it was announced The TH-300 would be powered with a German built Porsche Radical piston engine if the 300C was selected.

Also digressing to Australia, few years ago Bell signed contract with BAE Systems Australia to team up w.r.t pitching both Viper / Venom




another agreement for the Tiger was signed

 

Basil

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That picture of the AH-1W (4BW) in German markings is from the German book Bell AH-1 "Cobra" by Alexander Luedeke (Nickname: luedo34)
Link:
www.amazon.com/Bell-AH-1-Cobra-Alexander-L%C3%BCdeke/dp/3613034573/ref=sr_1_14?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1431886430&sr=1-14
See also my post regarding Bell's PAH-2 earlier proposal from the 80's.
Link: https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/th...-the-tiger-attack-helicopter.207/#post-251083

Btw, the mentioned book (Luedeke) is one of the best books about the Cobra having seen so far.
 

Basil

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"At the 1986 Hannover Airshow, it was announced The TH-300 would be powered with a German built Porsche Radical piston engine if the 300C was selected."

RavenOne, do you have any information about the mentioned Porsche engine?
 

RavenOne

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That picture of the AH-1W (4BW) in German markings is from the German book Bell AH-1 "Cobra" by Alexander Luedeke (Nickname: luedo34)
Link:
www.amazon.com/Bell-AH-1-Cobra-Alexander-L%C3%BCdeke/dp/3613034573/ref=sr_1_14?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1431886430&sr=1-14
See also my post regarding Bell's PAH-2 earlier proposal from the 80's.
Link: https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/th...-the-tiger-attack-helicopter.207/#post-251083

Btw, the mentioned book (Luedeke) is one of the best books about the Cobra having seen so far.

Agreed also Mike Verier’s book Cobra is an excellent reference.

cheers
 

RavenOne

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"At the 1986 Hannover Airshow, it was announced The TH-300 would be powered with a German built Porsche Radical piston engine if the 300C was selected."

RavenOne, do you have any information about the mentioned Porsche engine?

I saw this Info back in Paul Beavers book on Military Helicopters published 86/87.

No I was going to ask if anyone on here has any info on the Schweitzer proposal, even. Enter if there’s an artists impression marketing material from Schweitzer of a 300C in Heeresflieger Markings.
 

yasotay

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I would not be surprised at all to see Germany take on AH-64E. With a very mature logistics network already in place in Europe the Heersfliger could tap right in with little issue. Just to stir the pot a bit, I wonder if the German aero-industry is looking to break out of the Euro-centric situation they have bound themselves to, for the most part, these last few decades?

Also Thanks to RavenOne for access to the Aussie White Paper.
 

Basil

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Agreed also Mike Verier’s book Cobra is an excellent reference.

cheers
[/QUOTE]

Yes, absolutely. I have both books.
 

Basil

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"At the 1986 Hannover Airshow, it was announced The TH-300 would be powered with a German built Porsche Radical piston engine if the 300C was selected."

RavenOne, do you have any information about the mentioned Porsche engine?

I saw this Info back in Paul Beavers book on Military Helicopters published 86/87.

No I was going to ask if anyone on here has any info on the Schweitzer proposal, even. Enter if there’s an artists impression marketing material from Schweitzer of a 300C in Heeresflieger Markings.


In the late 1980s I read in a german magazine ("Hobby") that Porsche was then examining to adapt its V6 formula 1 engine in a derated version as a propulsion unit for civil helicopters. Of course nothing came out of this idea.
 

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TomcatViP

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It's an amazing program. Now some parts are going to be regenerated when economically viable for new built airframes.
 

yasotay

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Have to keep Boeing Mesa going somehow.

Less snarky, most of those platforms have made multiple trips to unforgiving parts of the planet. Many of them collected extra holes along the way.
 

marauder2048

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Likely the older block 1 and 2 nearing their end of service life, some of those birds are pushing almost 22 years old at this point.

IOW AH-64D rebuilds vs. new build?
 

yasotay

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I have no issue really with the intent to develop newer airframes, but I do note that the article talks of demilitarizing Apaches, but does not anywhere point out anything about "replacing" Apaches.
 

Grey Havoc

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Less snarky, most of those platforms have made multiple trips to unforgiving parts of the planet. Many of them collected extra holes along the way.

I suspect that the fad during that time for COTS and the like didn't help matters either.
 

TomcatViP

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Modernized Tiger offer for Australia rejected opening the path for an FMS deal of Ah-64E. Airbus double down on low prices and extra bonus (read below):


Notice how, a nation in Europe, is offering to let go some Tiger back to Airbus that they can be given as a bonus to cement this deal...
I would love to hear the WTO say about this alleged "dumping".
 

GTX

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I wouldn't worry - Airbus's chances of winning this are incredibly low. They are 'on the nose' with Army.
 

JohnR

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How will the AH64E compare to the earlier models in terms of their 'Hangar Queen" status?

I have to admit I have always preferred the later models of the AH1's (purely on aesthetic grounds), how do they actually compare to the AH64.
 

Forest Green

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Modernized Tiger offer for Australia rejected opening the path for an FMS deal of Ah-64E. Airbus double down on low prices and extra bonus (read below):


Notice how, a nation in Europe, is offering to let go some Tiger back to Airbus that they can be given as a bonus to cement this deal...
I would love to hear the WTO say about this alleged "dumping".
Not much of an endorsement if people are giving them away.
 

yasotay

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It really does not look good for the Aussie Tiger. Also supposing there is a significant maritime requirement, if AH-64E is at the front of the list, Boeing must be offering it at a significant mark down. I like others thought this an obvious case for the AH-1Z.
 

GTX

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It really does not look good for the Aussie Tiger. Also supposing there is a significant maritime requirement, if AH-64E is at the front of the list, Boeing must be offering it at a significant mark down. I like others thought this an obvious case for the AH-1Z.

From what I understand, the Australian Army wants the Apache...they just need to convince their political masters now...

That said, I believe BAE Systems/Bell will put forward an extremely attractive industrial solution which will be challenging to beat.
 
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