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AH-64 Apache Projects

TinWing

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Agusta also proposed a "naval" A-129, with a radome replacing the electro-optical sight. The weapon was - very predictably - the Marte anti-ship missile.

The proposal was apparently unsolicited.
 

elmayerle

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Any information as to whether a "Sea Apache" with a NOTAR system was considered?
 

Dronte

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A 1983 proposal of Oerlikon for a air version a of the ADATS drawn installed in an Apache

(source: Revista internacional de defensa 3/1983)
 

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muxel

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The ocean-going Apaches

Hughes and McDonnell Douglas made several attempts to adapt the AH-64A for a dedicated naval role. The first of these 'marinised' versions came in 1984. An Apache equipped with Harpoon or Penguin anti-ship missiles, Sidewinders for selfdefence, TOW missiles and a mast-mounted radar was proposed for both USMC and USN use. In USMC service the proposed 'sea Apache' could operate in support of amphibious operations from LHAs or LHDs to protect the assault force at sea and on the beach-head. USN aircraft could be based on frigates to provide distant protection for battle groups from surface threats. The 'Sea Apache' would have had a combat radius of 142 miles(228 km) and a mission endurance of 2.8 hours.

These ideas matured into a more developed 'Naval Apache' concept which was unveiled in 1987. This aircraft was radically modified through the addition of a completely redefined forward fuselage (plus IFR probe) with the avionics shifted to a ventral housing, increasing the fuel load. TADS/PNVS sensors and cannon were replaced by a Hughes AN/APG-65 radar. Redesigned stub wing/undercarriage sponsons could mount Sidewinder missiles and the 'Naval Apache' retained its Harpoon anti-ship missile capability. Hopes for over 100 sales proved to be premature.

Source: WAP (?)
 

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Antonio

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Thanks for sharing Matej your beautiful drawings. I really love it! ::)
 

yasotay

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Indeed superb artwork!!

You might be interested to know that the USN may explore 'sharing' space on aircraft carriers and other ships for Army attack aircraft to provide support to the fleet in littoral operations. While the USN has outfitted some of its H-60 with the ability to carry AGM-114, the package of missile/rocket/gun with the sensor suite of the Longbow, makes it a very good small boat hunter. USFK and the USN have already tested this concept and developed tactics for the Apache to support the fleet.
 

GTX

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Matej,

These are superb - I hope you don't mind but I've taken the liberty of posting them over at http://www.whatifmodelers.com/ - you should come join us and post some more profiles (we have a area dedicated just for this sort of thing).

BTW, here is a profile of the third and final (?) SH-64 proposal:



Regards,

Greg
 

Sentinel Chicken

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Very nice illustrations, Matej- I had built the second proposal using Dragon's 1/144 Apache kit several years ago, it's probably in storage somewhere now as I've since run out of space with my other rampant aviation hobbies.

I added ALQ-142 ESM antennas used on the Seahawk- one on each side of the nose just aft of the radome and a dual unit on the extreme end of the fuselage under the tail.
 

A13x

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Nice drawings Matej :)

A few months ago I made a start on a model of the third prototype Sea Apache to use in a game, but never bothered finishing it.





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Another project involving the Apache was the SpeedApache, a conceptual demonstration of the Piasecki Vector Thrust Ducted Propeller (VTDP).



http://www.geocities.com/tacticalstudiesgroup/piaseckivtdp.htm
 
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STINGRAY

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Piasecki Apache VTDP

Anyone found a picture of the model of the Apache VTDP project, or the CGI model?
 

flateric

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Obviously, Santa's one...
 

flateric

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A little bit more on NAVY Apache, including folded view.

Source:

AIAA-86-2676
Marinized Apache -- An Engineering Challenge
Peter J. F. OReilly
McDonnell Douglas Helicopter Company
 

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AeroFranz

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Grigory,
does it say in the paper why they went to retractable landing gears for the navy variant?
After all the original version performs well enough for the army. ??? there probably were other considerations besides drag.

The 5-point landing gear design is hilarious...i guess that they took seriously the issue of landing on a rolling deck, but it really looks "Kluged" together :)
 

flateric

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One of Navy Apache missions was to escort RH-53s. Army version speed was insufficient for this one, thus "...reduction in drag by streamlining the nose, retracting the gears and an improved wing airfoil with smaller span and only one major missile station"

The Army Apache has a net turnover angle of less than 20 degrees and would be unsuitable for deck operations. The net turnover angle is the static turnover angle less the movement of the center of gravity due to oleo and tire compression on a moving deck. Wind forces also affect aircraft turnover and need to be considered. For purposes of this study a net turnover angle of 36 degrees was desired which leaves a conservative margin for landing gear dynamics and wind effects. Using the criteria for a static turnover angle of a minimum of 32 degrees and a maximum of 38 degrees a study of different landing gears was studied and a tricycle gear selected
 

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Triton

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Article about the McDonnell Douglas Sea Apache at All the World's Rotorcraft:
http://www.aviastar.org/helicopters_eng/mcdonnell_sea_apache.php
 

Colonial-Marine

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When reading about the proposed AH-64B upgrade, often a new fire control system and redesigned chain gun were mentioned. Are there any more specific details about these upgrades?
 

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Dimensionally, how did a stowed Apache compare to a stowed Seahawk?
I've tried unsuccessfully to find dimensions for stowed helicopters find dimensions for some time.
Could, say, a Perry (FFG7) carry two of these for one SH60. If not it would seem to be of limited utility as it would have very little additional capability and none of the SAR or liaison abilities. If it could it would seem to me to be a very nice and useful addition.

OTOH in addition to its listed abilities it might have some very limited ASW ability ie: in a pinch using it as a simple torpedo delivery system like the old Westland Wasp and perhaps even throwing a few sonar buoys under the 'wings'.

I'm not an Airdale so what am I missing?
 

Grey Havoc

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With all the recent and ongoing developments, perhaps the time of the Sea Apache has come again.
 

Kokoro

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Grey Havoc said:
With all the recent and ongoing developments, perhaps the time of the Sea Apache has come again.
maybe,

http://www.flickr.com/photos/defenceimages/5036629914/
Ocean had had Apache on it recently.
 

TomS

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Brickmuppet said:
Dimensionally, how did a stowed Apache compare to a stowed Seahawk?
I've tried unsuccessfully to find dimensions for stowed helicopters find dimensions for some time.
A folded SH-60B is 3.2 m wide by 12.5 m long. That's actually a bit smaller than the footprint of the Sea Apache shown above, especially with the rotor folded with two blades forward and two aft as shown in the drawing. (4.17 m wide by 11.6 m long) If they adopted a blade fold that put all four blades aft, Sea Apache would still be something like 11.6 m long, only a bit shorter than a Seahawk. No way you can get Apaches two for one in place of Seahawk.

Which of course means that there's no clear role for this naval attack helo now. Seahawk is (finally) being widely armed with Hellfire and door guns. Its only real drawback compared to Sea Apache in the marine environment is the smaller missile load, which is more than compensated for by the increased versatility of the SH-60.
 

Grey Havoc

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TomS said:
Which of course means that there's no clear role for this naval attack helo now. Seahawk is (finally) being widely armed with Hellfire and door guns. Its only real drawback compared to Sea Apache in the marine environment is the smaller missile load, which is more than compensated for by the increased versatility of the SH-60.
Arguably, Seahawk wouldn't be as survivable as a dedicated gunship such as the Sea Apache. In fact you could even argue that the Seahawks only real advantage over a dedicated gunship is that it can carry troops.
 

TomS

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Grey Havoc said:
Arguably, Seahawk wouldn't be as survivable as a dedicated gunship such as the Sea Apache. In fact you could even argue that the Seahawks only real advantage over a dedicated gunship is that it can carry troops.
Also, ASW equipment, 360-degree search radar, etc.

As a platform for delivering ordnance on a surface target, absolutely, the Sea Apache would be better. For embarking on a multi-role warship, Seahawk wins hands down.
 

flateric

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some stealthized advanced Apache project from the past
via FlyboyHelosim
 

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flateric

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wish I knew...graphics style very close to these oldish in-house artists' concepts you know...
 

flateric

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overscan

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more on Naval Apache...

Source: http://www.boxartden.com/gallery/index.php/Machat-article/Hughes/Hughes-AH-64-Apache
 

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hesham

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Nice find my dear Paul.
 

JohnR

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Did any live fire exercises with Harpoon ever take place?
 

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