Yes, you are right,thank you for data. Kh-69 has 400mm and Kh-58UShK-TP has 380mm and with folded wings 400mm in diameter. We have that pic of Izd 810's rocket chamber and can estimate possible body diameter.Also we must keep in mind that those wings are long but very narrow as we can see( 100mm maybe ?) . I would say 380/400mm now. Hm,R-37M is by the way 4.1m long. Anyway thanks again.
Current Russian/Ukrainian AAM projects
Ooops, it was my fault,sorry. Hope we will continue to comment about AAM's on that given topic.
Now after so many years,data and info are more available.
SR AAM for the Su-57 are Izdelie 270, Izdeliye 750 or R-74M/ML, Izd 760 or R-74M2 and Izd 300M or K-30/R-30 ? Yes, R-74M2 ( RVV-MD2) is highly modernised version of the R-74M for the close in combat. Then Izdelie 270 with unique aero and gasdynamics control surfaces. Izd 300M is not only for 'dogfight' but also for anti-AAM/SAM defence ( obviously that guy 'Av69' was right).There is one interesting article about Izd 300M with very interesting comparison details. It is Russian article from 2021 ( sorry for that it is in Russian Cyrilic) .
В воздушном бою у российских самолетов осталась надежда лишь на «Изделие 300М»
Россия, похоже, проснулась и начала спешно затыкать дыру в секторе авиационных ракет малой дальности после двадцати лет бездеятельности, пишет военный обозреватель Дуглас Барри для Международного...
news.rambler.ru
MR AAM ,we have that Izdeliye 171-1 ( not 170-1 ) as obviously modernised version of the Izd. 170-1/R-77-1. We can easily identify Izd 171-1 by those windows in the wings. Izd 180 is maybe the AAM presented besides Su-75 a few years ago. Izd 180PD is the AAM carried in flight by one prototype T-50/Su-57.Some Russian sources called it only Izdeliye 180.
Новые управляемые ракеты класса "воздух-воздух" "Изделие 180" на истребителе Т-50
В полной версии уже упоминавшегося видеосюжета по поводу отмечавшегося 100-летия 929-го Государственного лётно-испытательного центра Министерства обороны Российской Федерации имени В. П. Чкалова (929 ГЛИЦ), в числе прочего, продемонстрирован ряд небезынтересных материалов по истребителю пятого…
bmpd.livejournal.com
LR AAM is Izd 810 of course but it is questionable whether it is based on the R-37M/Izd 610M. Maybe it is completely new design.
All new AAM's for the Su-57 are serial produced in Moscow's factory AO GosMKB 'Vympel' after the name of I.I.Toropov.
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R-37 assembly
Those are the sequences from one reportage dating back to 2015. Manufacturer is PO 'Strela' ( Arrow) in the city of Korolev.
Now some very interesting technical details .Comparison between old Soviet K-37 or Izdeliye 610 ,not R-37 'cause this AAM has never become operational and new Russian R-37M or Izdeliye 610M. Old K-37 had only RC-channel receive antenna or Radio-Correction channel ( midcourse update data-link ). RC-channel has 100kms range. New R-37M has one channel more,it is by some sources TVM-channel ( Track Via Missile) channel. Special combat mode called 'Tandem' allows that one MiG-31BM in the patrol group illuminate with its radar N007AM Zaslon-AM / search,detect,track and lock-on given targets/, while others can launch 4 or max 8 R-37M long-range AAM in the radio-silence mode.
Next detail is what should be 'missile to missile' data-link ( marked with red arrow and square ).It is used for networking between missiles in attacking group.
Hi ! PD stands for 'Pryamotochni Dvigatel' or ram-jet for sure.There was project for RVV-AE-PD from the beginning of 1990's.RVV-AE-PD was as we know version of RVV-AE with ram-jet. I'm pretty sure that AAM's under the wings of the prototype have air intakes ,not wings.
It is certain that this AAM is longer then Izd 170-1 ( 3.7m), maybe by 0.5m ( 4.2m ).
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Is that mini-model pictured in Vympel maybe ? Did it remain only as a model or is it real one ?
Hi ! On the pic below is one of the R-37M that finnished its flight on the Ukrainian field. I must correct you that there was no chance to happened as you mentioned ''Its' rocket-motor appears to failed to ignite after it was launched'' .Reason is simple ,MiG-31BM's launch their AAM's type R-37M way far from Ukrainian air space. About possible ''examination'', if that ever happened any way ,both Ukries and US specialists would be surprised.About on-board equipment ,from the multi-channel data-link on-board system ( midcourse update channel,TVM-channel,missile to missile data-link channel ) via dual-band radar seeker and radio-proximity fuse to the new strapdown INS or BINS. Some details about the new dual-band radar-seeker type 9B1103M-350 called 'Shayba' or MFBU-610M.
Dual-band radar seeker type 9B1103M-350 'Shayba' from the company 'Agat' has completely new fiber-optic gyroscopes and it works in two radar bands. Ku-band /12-18GHz frequency range/ is used for ARH-mode and X-band / 8-12GHz frequency range/ is for the SARH mode. It is interesting that both modes can be used separetly( one by one) or simultaneosly. It is very hard ,almost impossible to jamm it when both modes work simultaneously. It has new digit processing computer which has capacity of 50mil FLOPS. This seeker is more resistant on ECM then older seeker type 9B1388 in the old Soviet test AAM type K-37 /used only by MiG-31M prototypes/ . By the way, it is 3 times lighter ( 13kgs vs 39kgs ).Seeker 9B1103M-350 has very powerfull TWT and also thanks to slotted antenna with diameter of 350mm ,it can lock on incoming target with RCS in Ku-band/ARH mode of 5sqm from almost 50kms. Same target can be locked on in SARH mode working in X-band from 100kms. SARH mode of course need illumination of the targets. It can lock on target inside 120° sector. There is also dual-band proximity fuse working in radar and optical band( laser) with their transmit and receive antennas.
Homing head 9B-1103M-350 | Missilery.info
Active Homing Radar Head 9B-1103M-350 is designed for installation on air-to-air missiles designed to engage aircraft, helicopters (including hovercrafts), cruise and anti-location missiles. The
en.missilery.info
If this is not against the Forum rules, I will give some data about launch distance records achieved with this heavy very long-range hypersonic AAM type R-37M.On October 2022 one Ukr AF tact recce aircraft Su-24MR was hit and shot down by the R-37M which was launched from MiG-31BM.Launch distance was 217kms.Then on Dec 2023 one Ukr AF fighter MiG-29 was shot down by the R-37M launched from MiG-31BM. Launch distance was 125kms .
The MiG-31 hit the Ukrainian MiG-29 with an R-37M missile. Video shooting from the cockpit.
On July 2024 another Ukr AF MiG-29 was shot down by the R-37M. That time launch aircraft was Su-35S and launch distance was staggering 213kms.
It looks like a modified AA-12 Adder.
Sorry but may I ask you something .If you are a fighter pilot and SAM or AAM flies towards your fighter, will you continue to fly straight like a 'flying brick' and wait and hope that your aircraft jammers will do the job or will go to sharp evasive turns and maneuvers? Take a look on this video. I think you will understand .
Izdelie 270 is one completely new AAM .Completely new not by its design but by philosophy,so by combat tactics. It is obvious that its base is R-77 ,even has export R-77E parts but Izd 270 (R-47 ?) is much shorter. This AAM is developed for long term close in combat where its Time of aerodynamic stability and controlability or Guided flight time is 100sec. Izd 270 has multiple aero and gasdynamic control surfaces,from those famous lattice stabilisers via TVC-nozzle to the mini boosters on the sides of the body / maybe the centre of the mass/ .That boosters will can be used for sharp 180° turn immediately after launch and for the engaging of enemy fighter flying in the rear hemisphere of Su-57.Also they can be used for, if needed for multiple sharp turns .
Blue lines on the pic shows us somethnig very interesting ,astonishing....Those holes on the missile's body are for the laser proximity fuse transmit /receive antennas by the way.
Clearly not
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And all this information came from where, precisely?
Came from the multiple Russian and other sources: TG-channels,some sites and articles, some forums and GosMKB Vympel reviews etc. I've read for the first time that this AAM is designated as Izdeliye 270 in one Vympel's article.
Izdeliye 270 is even shorter then R-73/-74 which is 3m long.
Now one question .What this can be? Upper pic-lower blue arrow and lower pic-yellow square.
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Avimimus
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It is interesting in that it is higher diameter (higher thrust?), but quite short. Although still not short enough to stack two of them within a 4.2 metre long weapon bay...? Makes me wonder where it is supposed to fit and what is supposed to use it?
Maybe it is to provide more acceleration or better engine performance (or a higher seeker diametre), while keeping within a weight constraint? That could explain the length... it is purely a by-product of keeping the weight down while meeting other criteria?
Maybe it is to provide more acceleration or better engine performance (or a higher seeker diametre), while keeping within a weight constraint? That could explain the length... it is purely a by-product of keeping the weight down while meeting other criteria?
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Yes I've heard that opinion before.One friend (with some degree of knowledge) told me it's just a izd.170 motor section with protective cap on it.
FWC-fuselage weapon compartments are certainly longer than 4.2m. As mentioned before ,AAM's with those lattice stabilizers can not be carried inside of the FWC because they are not foldable.
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I've seen Izdeliye 270 mentioned as a designation for a new missile but as a clean-sheet replacement to R-77 (170). People have speculated this missile might be 270 but I've seen no evidence this is anything but speculation.
LookingGlass
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It's just an RVV-AE / K-77 without stabilizers installed. No internal equivalent was ever accepted in service for RuAF. It's rough equivalent is AIM-120B and it has been offered for export since 2000s.
RVV-AE / K-77, MAKS-2007 (note the form of the base for lattice rudder and fairings for laser proximity fuse)
К-77 / Р-77 - AA-12 ADDER | MilitaryRussia.Ru — отечественная военная техника (после 1945г.)
Сборник справочной информации по отечественным системам вооружений выпуска после 1945 г., форум
Air-to-air missile RVV-AE | Catalog Rosoboronexport
The RVV-AE medium-range air-to-air missile is designed to engage air targets (fighters, attack aircraft, bombers, helicopters, military transport aircraft and cruise missiles) from any direction, day ...
roe.ru
RVV-SD / K-77-1 / R-77-1 (in RuAF service) for reference
Air-to-air missile RVV-SD | Catalog Rosoboronexport
The RVV-SD medium-range air-to-air missile is designed to engage air targets (fighters, attack aircraft, bombers, helicopters, military transport aircraft and cruise missiles) from any direction, day ...
roe.ru
English markings serve as an additional confirmation of an export model. There was no other "secret" medium range AA missile in serial production in 2018-19 other than these.
LookingGlass
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They blue lines show us a visual distortion from a fisheye camera.
You yourself posted pictures about that show no bent shapes and a classical cylindrical form.
Here: https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/attachments/izdelie-270-u-gosmkb-vimpel-2018-png.750390/
And here: https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/data/attachments/286/286152-25d2da3ae9cff7cf34b6ac231af5cc04.jpg
And here (the top one): https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/data/attachments/286/286148-df1ed9006fafadf738c4861643c6270a.jpg
LookingGlass
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His weight for R-37M is also off. ROE stated weight for RVV-BD are "up to 510 kg". I doubt that RuAF's model comes almost 20% heavier than an export one, considering the missiles are identical in shapes.
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So 'FWC' are about 4.5m long, tnx.
Export version of the R-37M /Izd. 610M known as Izd 620 has the same launch distances as R-37M. I don't know any of the exported AAM's that has less launch distances then the version used in Soviet/Russian AF.
Main differences between export version and the domestic version of one radar guided AAM is in the so called carrier or 'liter' frequencies. E.g. those used by active or semi-active radar seekers and of course by radio-proximity fuse.
If we talk about that so called 'max/min ranges' or better max/min authorised launch distances, we have three launch parameters: 'Dr max 1' or authorised launch distance against non-maneuvering air target. 'Dr max 2' as authorised launch distance against maneuverable air target and we have 'Dr min' as min authorised launch distance. Authorisation of course comes from the WCS. As we all know ,launch distances depend on many factors/parameters: speed/alt of the fighter and its target,angle aspect and hemisphere etc etc...
R-37M should have max launch distance in 'Dr max 1' parameter for engaging big /means bigger frontal RCS/ incoming air target of 400 kms ( should have). Note: record-breaking launch distance ever, was achieved on April 1994 during one exercise with test AAM type K-37/Izd 610 launched from the prototype MiG-31M number 057 blue.Launch distance was 304kms.
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We have Izd 171-1 and also that Izd 180. Of course, VKS fighters MiG-31BM,Su-30SM/SM2 and Su-35S and MA-VMF MiG-29K/KUB use R-77-1 or Izd 170-1 for years now /became operational in small numbers from the beginning of 2016/.
Tried to find that article in which Izd 270 is mentioned but right now Vympel site is unavailable. There is one article from 'bmpd' about some results that Vympel achieved in 2020.
Программы НИОКР ГосМКБ «Вымпел» имени И.И. Торопова
They mentioned AAM known as BD-bolshaya dalynost ' or better to say it was Izd 810 as ready for the ground and fligtht tests. About AAM known as MD -malaya dalynost,plan was to finnish tests until the end of 2020. MD was RVV-MD2 or Izd 760/R-74M2 ,I guess. About AAM known as SD-srednaya dalynost ,source wrote that this AAM was in the phase ready for State tests. Question is ,which AAM in fact, Izd 180 ? What about that Izd 270 ....
They also mentioned that in 2020 export version of R-37M / RVV-BD/ known also as Izd 620 was in the State tests.
Программы НИОКР ГосМКБ «Вымпел» имени И.И. Торопова
В корпоративной газете Вымпел АО Государственное машиностроительное конструкторское бюро Вымпел имени И.И. Торопова (АО ГосМКБ Вымпел им. И.И. Торопова) - ведущего российского предприятия в области разработки и производства…
bmpd.livejournal.com
Hi, sorry but I don't understand your comment. No pls take a look at this pic and try to find differences between AAM's marked with blue and yellow lines. I think/ hope that you will find them,you will understand that we have two different AAM's on the pic.
Again, photo was taken in 2018 in Vympel.
.
About the launch weight of the R-37M or Izd 610M ,yes ,ROE 'said' it is 510kgs but is it right ? Launch weight of the old R-33/Izd 410 is about 500kgs, of R-33S/Izd 520 is about 520kgs, then of only test K-37 or Izd 610 was about 600kgs.R-37M is the Russian modified version of the old Soviet K-37 where e.g. only radar seeker 9B1103M-350 is 3 times lighter then old radar seeker 9B1388 in K-37 ( 13 kgs vs 39 kgs ) ,then warhead ( 60kgs) is the same. Both AAM's has the same body diameter ,old K-37 is little bit longer .So my question is, where almost 100 kgs disappeared ?
About RVV-AE ( R-77 or export R-77E ) and RVV-SD ( R-77-1/L and export R-77-1EL), yes , you were right. In this pic we can see differences beetwen them in the arsenal of the PLAAF. Photo taken in Jan 2018. PLAAF got R-77-1EL together with Su-35.
«Армия-2023». РВВ-МД2
В соответствии с распространенной в преддверии форума «Армия-2023» информацией, заранее стало известно о том, что будет представлена новая управляемая авиаракета класса «воздух-возду…missiles.ru
Saw this article with images of the new rvv-md2/r-74m2. Looks pretty awesome. Over at russiadefenseforum they were translating some of the info from the brochure. Here are some pics from the article above.
View attachment 706196
View attachment 706197
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View attachment 706199
Germanium (black color ) made IRST senzor dome ? So its heat seeker (теплопеленгатор) works in LWIR-band ( 8µm-14µm) ?
What we know about the radar seekers for the AAM's that are planned for the Su-57 ? AAM's like Product 171-1 ,then 180,270,300M and 810 have radar seekers. Products 750 and 760 have passive IR seekers of course.
Active radar seeker 9B1103M has three versions : 9B-1103M-150 Colibry, 9B1103M-200 Progress and 9B1103M-350 Shayba. 9B1103M-200 ( PA/PS ) is part of the Product 170-1 (R-77-1/L) and 9B1103M-350 is part of the Product 610M or R-37M.
What we have here ?
From left to right ... we have 9B1348E that is part of the R-77E ( Product 190) ,only for export. Works only in X-band. Then there is 9B1103M-350 for the R-37M, it works in X and Ku-band. I'm not sure for this 9B1103M-150 ,which AAM or maybe SAM is part of? Then we have those 9B1103M-200PA/PS as part of the R-77-1/L. Works in X and Ku-band too.
www.scribd.com
If I'm right,AAM's Products 171-1, 180 and 270 have the same diameter ( 200mm) ,so there must be some new active radar seeker ( maybe based on AESA) with antenna diameter of 200mm.There is very little info about that after so many years.Also about the radar seeker for the Product 810.
There are two new active radar seekers 9B1103M1 and M2 with antenna diameters 150mm and 100mm.
АРГС 9Б-1103М1 и 9Б-1103М2 МНИИ «Агат»
I suppose that maybe this new 9B1103M2 is part of the Product 300M ( as anti-AAM/SAM missile).
Active radar seeker 9B1103M has three versions : 9B-1103M-150 Colibry, 9B1103M-200 Progress and 9B1103M-350 Shayba. 9B1103M-200 ( PA/PS ) is part of the Product 170-1 (R-77-1/L) and 9B1103M-350 is part of the Product 610M or R-37M.
What we have here ?
From left to right ... we have 9B1348E that is part of the R-77E ( Product 190) ,only for export. Works only in X-band. Then there is 9B1103M-350 for the R-37M, it works in X and Ku-band. I'm not sure for this 9B1103M-150 ,which AAM or maybe SAM is part of? Then we have those 9B1103M-200PA/PS as part of the R-77-1/L. Works in X and Ku-band too.
Agat New Generation of Active Radar Homing Heads | PDF | Radar | Missile
The document discusses the development of new generations of active radar homing heads by the Moscow Agat Research Institute. It describes an upgraded 9B-1103M homing head that has improved performance over previous models. The institute is now developing a new high-performance digital active...
If I'm right,AAM's Products 171-1, 180 and 270 have the same diameter ( 200mm) ,so there must be some new active radar seeker ( maybe based on AESA) with antenna diameter of 200mm.There is very little info about that after so many years.Also about the radar seeker for the Product 810.
There are two new active radar seekers 9B1103M1 and M2 with antenna diameters 150mm and 100mm.
АРГС 9Б-1103М1 и 9Б-1103М2 МНИИ «Агат»
Оборонно-промышленный комплекс, новости, история, развитие (media.today.defense) : Рассылка : Subscribe.Ru
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I suppose that maybe this new 9B1103M2 is part of the Product 300M ( as anti-AAM/SAM missile).
Found this Izd. 300 screenshot in an IISS pdf while looking for something else, haven't seen it posted here. Are there pictures (rather than just drawings) showing the whole missile, or at least the rear part?
TSARb
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200mm - it's about the size of a pen, right?
Via https://topwar.ru/101149-planarnye-...a-na-osnove-ltcc-keramiki-made-in-russia.html
Google translate here: Planar receiving multichannel modules of X-band APAA based on LTCC ceramics - Made in Russia
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