MBDA' Brimstone

bring_it_on said:
https://www.shephardmedia.com/news/...-uk-to-delay-spear-3-first-firing-until-2023/
GL-SDB on the other hand is just about ready for production, and the same for ER-GMLRS which will be operational next year. The latter will eventually house a seeker of some sort.
Click to expand...

I presume the delay in first firing is connected to the delay in entry into service which was announced last year.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1495712772671389696
View: https://twitter.com/navylookout/status/1495712772671389696
 
The testing was to begin on the Typhoon so its likely not a direct result of F-35 integration delays but rather just a delay with the program itself which has moved testing right by about a year. Is there anything equivalent of a GAO or DOT&E report on developmental/acquisition programs in UK?
 
bring_it_on said:
https://www.shephardmedia.com/news/...-uk-to-delay-spear-3-first-firing-until-2023/
GL-SDB on the other hand is just about ready for production, and the same for ER-GMLRS which will be operational next year. The latter will eventually house a seeker of some sort.
Click to expand...

That does not look good for SPEAR 3 and the F-35, the SPEAR 3 was supposed to be designed to fit inside the weapons bays of the F-35B. I wonder what the RAF must be thinking about this situation.
 
FighterJock said:
That does not look good for SPEAR 3 and the F-35, the SPEAR 3 was supposed to be designed to fit inside the weapons bays of the F-35B. I wonder what the RAF must be thinking about this situation.
Click to expand...

It's already had an impact in the UK having to order c200 AIM-120D because of the increasing delays in weapon integration regarding Meteor. I suspect UK MoD will feel vindicated in its focus on Tempest, from recent Parliamentary Select Committees its clear that whilst F-35 will get some additional orders to reach the 60-80 mark, focus is rapidly shifting to Tempest long term. Little interest in an F-35A buy.

It will affect the UK's view toward F-35's utility though. At present we have a hugely expensive system that can deploy 3 weapon types. Asraam, Amraam C-5 (to be replaced shortly with Amraam D) and Paveway IV. And that is not going to change for the next 5 years. Essentially until then we have a very limited combat capability. A good (not excellent) air to air capability and a very limited air to ground capability. Neither of whch effectively make use of the F-35's LO characteristics. Even after that point (if it doesn't get delayed further), with the addition of Asraam Blk VI, Meteor, Paveway IV Penetrator and Spear, we'll only move on to an excellent air to air platform, but still a limited air to ground capability.

It's always worth looking at the original Baseline Threshold Weapons for F-35....the red crosses indicate that the weapon is yet to be integrated/integration cancelled, in fact things are that delayed that some weapons have actually left service, or will be that close to retirement when an opportunity would arise to integrate that it wouldn't be worth it. Some new weapons have arrived to replace those (or provide a capability in a different way (i.e. the internal baggage pods for F-35A that are in test) or just by the passage of time (SDB2 will likely replace Cluster Dispensers for the USAF, Spear will replace Brimstone for the RAF, Harpoon has lost its allure to JSM, HARM replaced by AARGM-ER, skipping AARGM entirely....). But easier weapons integration was supposed to be a feature.....we often forget its an aircraft that has been in service for 10 years now...

DErJ27L.jpg
 
Last edited:
I'll admit I don't understand why weapons integration, particularly for external weapons like the bigger Paveway series bombs, has fallen behind. Seems like the CBU-103/104/105 should be a higher priority too given events in Ukraine.
 
The British Army's decision not to pay the small sums of money to integrate Brimstone 3 to AH-64E is looking increasingly ridiculous...wonder if we're going to see a reverse ferret soon....

Ukraine shows the need for AH to have as much standoff as possible, something that Brimstone 3 does to a far greater degree than JAGM or even Spike NLOS.

Saudi, Qatar, UK and Poland all will be using Brimstone and AH-64E...Poland may also integrate it to AW149 which is the likely winner of the UK's own NMH programme...

https://twitter.com/x/status/1569415721259507717
View: https://twitter.com/Rotorfocus/status/1569415721259507717
 
timmymagic said:
The British Army's decision not to pay the small sums of money to integrate Brimstone 3 to AH-64E is looking increasingly ridiculous...wonder if we're going to see a reverse ferret soon....

Ukraine shows the need for AH to have as much standoff as possible, something that Brimstone 3 does to a far greater degree than JAGM or even Spike NLOS.

Saudi, Qatar, UK and Poland all will be using Brimstone and AH-64E...Poland may also integrate it to AW149 which is the likely winner of the UK's own NMH programme...

https://twitter.com/x/status/1569415721259507717
View: https://twitter.com/Rotorfocus/status/1569415721259507717
Click to expand...
Can helicopters fier spear 3 or dose that need to be from a plane?
 
Cjc said:
Can helicopters fier spear 3 or dose that need to be from a plane?
Click to expand...
Probably plane only because it's turbojet propulsion that's optimised to fly at a certain speed and there's no booster. Maybe you could theoretically fire it from a helicopter going very near the outside of its speed/altitude envelope, I don't know. It's certainly advertised as being plane only thus far.
 
Good Day All -

We don't have a SPEAR dedicated thread save for a proposed EW variant. Moderators, if you think there is enough in this thread to start one, have at it.

A SPEAR cut sheet from the recent Tailhook Convention.

Enjoy the Day! Mark
 

Attachments

  • MBDA SPEAR Cutsheet Front.jpg
    MBDA SPEAR Cutsheet Front.jpg
    714.4 KB · Views: 67
  • MBDA SPEAR Cutsheet Back.jpg
    MBDA SPEAR Cutsheet Back.jpg
    689.5 KB · Views: 67
Mark Nankivil said:
Good Day All -

We don't have a SPEAR dedicated thread save for a proposed EW variant. Moderators, if you think there is enough in this thread to start one, have at it.

A SPEAR cut sheet from the recent Tailhook Convention.

Enjoy the Day! Mark
Click to expand...
this is already on their website I think
 
Ronny said:
Mark Nankivil said:
Good Day All -

We don't have a SPEAR dedicated thread save for a proposed EW variant. Moderators, if you think there is enough in this thread to start one, have at it.

A SPEAR cut sheet from the recent Tailhook Convention.

Enjoy the Day! Mark
Click to expand...
this is already on their website I think
Click to expand...

But good to capture here for when it is inevitably taken off their website in a redesign.
 
Latest MBDA Ground Launched Brimstone concepts for the UK military presented at the DVD 2022 event at Millbrook.

Brimstone on Boxer

bMulzLC.jpg


Brimstone on HMT600

rUgzShh.jpg


Press Release

https://www.mbda-systems.com/press-releases/mbda-unveils-land-precision-fires-family/
Worth noting that MBDA are pitching this alongside the Brimstone/CAMM hybrid missile (called Land Precision Strike). Which is a great bit of news...

It will be interesting if the 8 round launcher is also adopted by the Polish Army for their recent Tank Destroyer programme that will use Brimstone.
 
Is there any things official ever released about Brimstone II range?, I read somewhere that it got 200% more range than Brimstone I due to new motor, but not sure how accurate is that though.
 
As I understand it, ground launched Brimstone is bring suggested for use in the 'Overwatch' role, given the previous 'Overwatch' vehicle used the 4,000m metre range Swingfire is Brimstone even with the shorter range of ground launched a bit over the top for that?

Does anyone have what is listed as a requirement for Overwatch?
 
TomS said:
Grey Havoc said:
For those of us still using a solid system of measurement, that is approximately 24.9 miles and 37.3 miles respectively. :D
Click to expand...

Which exceeds the range of the rather bigger Spike NLOS that the US is adopting as a long-range weapon for Apache.
Click to expand...
Not to mention that Spike is so much slower than Brimstone
 
PMN1 said:
As I understand it, ground launched Brimstone is bring suggested for use in the 'Overwatch' role, given the previous 'Overwatch' vehicle used the 4,000m metre range Swingfire is Brimstone even with the shorter range of ground launched a bit over the top for that?

Does anyone have what is listed as a requirement for Overwatch?
Click to expand...

Not sure if a firm requirement has been published, but I do find this from last year:

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/...s-for-future-anti-armour-capabilities-project
  • Mounted Close Combat Overwatch (MCCO): a long range system providing anti-armour coverage to the battle group, with concepts carrying multiple missiles weighing up to 50kg with a range of up to 10km or more
Click to expand...


Edit: Actually, reading down to the bottom of that page and the linked articles, it looks like 10 km is a firm requirement for MCCO.
 
Last edited:
PMN1 said:
As I understand it, ground launched Brimstone is bring suggested for use in the 'Overwatch' role, given the previous 'Overwatch' vehicle used the 4,000m metre range Swingfire is Brimstone even with the shorter range of ground launched a bit over the top for that?
Click to expand...

Remember Swingfire was restricted to line of sight by its sighting system. If you're not constrained by that and have the ability to get accurate target locations 'over the hill' you might as well embrace it. Ultimately Brimstone 2 or 3 actually costs less than the latest Javelin variant...admittedly that is initial production cost, but it won't fall that dramatically. Cost per missile has been similar for some time...

What will be interesting to see is if new seeker heads are adopted beyond the DMB one. The original Land Precision Indirect Fires concept (since superceded by Land Precision Strike) had a EO/IR seeker as well. I would have thought to replace Spike NLOS for example you would need that man in the loop option, which was precisely the reason why it was purchased in the first place.
 

Similar threads

Back
Top Bottom