MBDA' Brimstone

dragon72

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The article doesn't actually say what the second seeker would be but laser would make the most sense.
 

SteveO

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MBDA's Brimstone missile makes RAF combat debut http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2009/01/20/321329/pictures-mbdas-brimstone-missile-makes-raf-combat.html
...the Brimstone has recently been equipped with a dual-mode seeker (DMS) that offers a laser guidance mode in place of its original millimetre-wave radar sensor.
Should this be read as laser guidance as well as MMW radar guidance in the same seeker head or do they have to swap sensors on the ground?
 

spike7451

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SteveO said:
MBDA's Brimstone missile makes RAF combat debut http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2009/01/20/321329/pictures-mbdas-brimstone-missile-makes-raf-combat.html
...the Brimstone has recently been equipped with a dual-mode seeker (DMS) that offers a laser guidance mode in place of its original millimetre-wave radar sensor.
Should this be read as laser guidance as well as MMW radar guidance in the same seeker head or do they have to swap sensors on the ground?

No they come as a sealed unit,ESA's prepare the missile before issue but in this case & other missiles (eg AIM 9/AIM 120) ect any work like that is done by the manufacturer.
This is the new version which replaces the older version,laseing of the target is done by a 2nd jet or self designation litening Pod.(as in the picture,pod on centerline pylon)
Merv
(ex-RAF Tornado armourer)

getAsset.aspx
 

Wembley

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So they put a huge amoutn of work into turning it BACK into a laser-guided missile?!

Yes, I know it's a completely different kettle of fish from the original. But still, isn't there a little bit of irony in there?
 

spike7451

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The are 2 versions,the one here is "Brimstone 2" whice replaces the older ones;

MBDA is developing Brimstone 2, a variant which augments the millimeter wave (mmW) radar seeker with a semi-active laser (SAL) and the shaped charge warhead with a blast fragmentation warhead. The weapon would be guided to the general target area by the INS system and terminal laser designation would be provided either by the launch platform or other units.[
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brimstone_missile

Basically,because our Tornado GR4's are replacing the Harrier GR9 in Afghan we needed a weapon that will do the same job as the CRV7 Rocket pod & Maverick missile,both of which Tornado cannot carry.This is why this new version has been rushed into service.
Merv
 

Rickshaw

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spike7451 said:
The are 2 versions,the one here is "Brimstone 2" whice replaces the older ones;

MBDA is developing Brimstone 2, a variant which augments the millimeter wave (mmW) radar seeker with a semi-active laser (SAL) and the shaped charge warhead with a blast fragmentation warhead. The weapon would be guided to the general target area by the INS system and terminal laser designation would be provided either by the launch platform or other units.[
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brimstone_missile

Basically,because our Tornado GR4's are replacing the Harrier GR9 in Afghan we needed a weapon that will do the same job as the CRV7 Rocket pod & Maverick missile,both of which Tornado cannot carry.This is why this new version has been rushed into service.
Merv

Why replace the GR9s - basically an attack aircraft with a strike aircraft, the GR4s?
 

spike7451

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rickshaw said:
spike7451 said:
The are 2 versions,the one here is "Brimstone 2" whice replaces the older ones;

MBDA is developing Brimstone 2, a variant which augments the millimeter wave (mmW) radar seeker with a semi-active laser (SAL) and the shaped charge warhead with a blast fragmentation warhead. The weapon would be guided to the general target area by the INS system and terminal laser designation would be provided either by the launch platform or other units.[
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brimstone_missile

Basically,because our Tornado GR4's are replacing the Harrier GR9 in Afghan we needed a weapon that will do the same job as the CRV7 Rocket pod & Maverick missile,both of which Tornado cannot carry.This is why this new version has been rushed into service.
Merv

Why replace the GR9s - basically an attack aircraft with a strike aircraft, the GR4s?

We have far more GR4's than GR9's & crews to boot.I know the is a lot of peed off Harrier peeps because of the amount of tours they are doing in the Sandpit,Four X Four month tours in two years in some cases.
It might be a long read but this is the Commons answer;

http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200708/cmhansrd/cm081119/halltext/81119h0004.htm

Merv
 

SteveO

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Thanks spike7451,

Nice to see UK forces getting the latest kit, shame it's always late and few in numbers though.

Brimstone II, Paveway IV and 27mm Mauser cannon sound like a cracking combination for Tornado.
 

jsport

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fredymac said:
Air-to-air mode (2:39 mark)?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NX0hrj9sboM

yes great find
but like its close cousin JAGM all great and necessary but spiral dev to 'meet evolving APS threat' means such an upgrade as to be a different missile.
defeating advanced IADS and highly protected tanks requires a different approach when it comes to defeating advanced IADS and highly protected tanks.

and if were going after low performance aircraft, then why not missiles UAS etc.? thus a only an LRIP for Brimstone and hard different look.
 

Bgray

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Quick question, do you have any links to the street fighter II design--all Google gets me are links to the video game. :)
 

TomS

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Quick question, do you have any links to the street fighter II design--all Google gets me are links to the video game. :)

It's a Challenger 2 with a bunch of urban warfare mods. Brimstone seems like an unrelated mod that they're demoing on the Streetfighter testbed.

 

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norseman

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There was talk recently as well of further software tweeks to improve capability against helicopters and low flying aircraft and also a "guided mortar mode" where it is lobbed for maximum ballistic performance and then pick up local designation, I have been told the range in this mode is spectacular and is also tied to the long body Brimstone which maybe the version touted for the Boxer "MRLS". I got snippets when I was plugged into a couple of projects that I can't talk about but there was a lot of options being looked at which were very interesting indeed.
 

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timmymagic

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UK in talks with Ukraine in regards to selling Brimstone....could be significant as it would be the first surface to surface (and naval) sale.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/...les-in-first-arms-deal-with-ukraine-7fmdddsmk (subscriber link)

It appears this is in its Sea Spear guise, for use in a surface to surface role, on Ukrainian missile boats. At present its intergovernmental talks not contractual, not sure if this is for the new UK designed (and for one ship, built) missile boats or the Ukrainian Navy's existing ships (although The Time's does say vessels that the Ukrainian Navy has in service which would likely be the ex-US Island Class, the ex-US MkVI patrol boats or the Gurza-M vessels).

Other outlets have also mentioned helicopter use....

It could answer the question about what the missile armament is on the UK built/designed boats, the images listed as 'Render 1' and 'Render 2' from Babcock in the below article could have Sea Spear launchers at the rear of the vessel. The pictures of a model at a trade show, in the same image set in the article, illustrate a more heavily armed variant, including what appears to be a 76mm Oto gun and larger AShM's (although the missile canisters shown are not for large AShM's like Harpoon or NSM)



Also appears that another user of Brimstone might be on the way (in addition to the RAF, Saudi Arabia and Qatar)...apparently Kuwait might be getting it with their new Typhoons...along with Storm Shadow.

 

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I wonder what Russia will think of Ukraine buying the Brimstone missile in its naval variant? Also interesting that Kuwait is possibly going to get it with their purchase of the Typhoon.
 

timmymagic

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Also interesting that Kuwait is possibly going to get it with their purchase of the Typhoon.

It makes perfect sense for Kuwait given the main threats to them (if someone is stupid enough to ignore the US security guarantee) is armour rolling over the border or FAC's disrupting oil exports. Truth is for Ukraine I would have thought the ground launched version to target artillery/armour would be more useful to them.
 

aonestudio

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LONDON, April 19 (Reuters) - Britain is looking at ways to supply anti-ship missiles to Ukraine, including mounting its 'Brimstone' missiles to vehicles, Prime Minister Boris Johnson said on Tuesday.

Asked what anti-ship weaponry Britain was planning to send to Ukraine to support it against the Russian invasion, Johnson said:

"One of the systems that we're looking at ... is to see if we could mount some Brimstones on the back of technicals (vehicles) to see if that will do the job."

He also said there were other options under consideration.
 

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Maritime Brimstone provides a unique and unrivaled all-weather, rapid anti-swarming FIAC capability weapon, offering the naval operator the option of engaging a wide range of target types, including fast-moving individual targets in cluttered environments, in both direct and indirect fire modes.

Maritime Brimstone is the latest member of the proven Brimstone Weapon System family; building upon the successful deployment of Brimstone into front-line operations with the RAF.

1651161064483.png
 

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It does seem odd, there is a decent sized dent in the middle of the body.

How are these supposed to work from a ground-launched platform? It's aimed at a grid square, goes up in a LOAL trajectory like Hellfire can and then is supposedly to independently pick out a target with the MMW seeker?
 

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It does seem odd, there is a decent sized dent in the middle of the body.

How are these supposed to work from a ground-launched platform? It's aimed at a grid square, goes up in a LOAL trajectory like Hellfire can and then is supposedly to independently pick out a target with the MMW seeker?
Take a look at the first answer to the tweet, dent is due to a removed watermark.
 

timmymagic

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It does seem odd, there is a decent sized dent in the middle of the body.

How are these supposed to work from a ground-launched platform? It's aimed at a grid square, goes up in a LOAL trajectory like Hellfire can and then is supposedly to independently pick out a target with the MMW seeker?
Essentially yes, if it fails to find a target to should self destruct in a pre-designated safe area. The only thing I can think of with this missile that has been captured is that a Ukrainian unit have had to bug out in a hurry and have dropped it from the improvised launcher, or that they tried to launch it and failed then abandoned it as a dud, but then had to move...

The flight and engagement profile is below from aerial platforms. I'd imagine with ground launch there will be some range loss but after climb out to cruise height it should act in a similar way. Something MBDA will be perfectly familiar with due to lots of trials shots from ground platforms.

3YImPTE.jpg
 

TomS

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The interesting thing is that that missile hasn't been fired...
It almost looks like it's been deliberately abandoned there by a spy.

Seriously? Less conspiracy, more reality.

In reality, the far more likely explanation is that a Ukrainian unit with Brimstone was forced to displace in a hurry and left a missile behind. Possibly a non-functional round, or one they were in the process of loading when the Russians showed up. The Ukrainians aren't winning every fight, you know. They are still retreating on several fronts, and those are the places they are most likely to send new advanced weaponry, in hopes of turning the tide.

My guess is that the current launcher for Brimstone is something like the Swedish ground launched Hellfire -- basically just an aircraft launch rail hung from a tripod framework.

1652182565148.png
 

timmymagic

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In reality, the far more likely explanation is that a Ukrainian unit with Brimstone was forced to displace in a hurry and left a missile behind. Possibly a non-functional round, or one they were in the process of loading when the Russians showed up.
I'd agree with this. Or a failure to fire that they failed to destroy before leaving the position (probably because to do so would have given their location away) can't imagine anyone would be too happy about picking up a dud to lug it with them...
My guess is that the current launcher for Brimstone is something like the Swedish ground launched Hellfire -- basically just an aircraft launch rail hung from a tripod framework.

Possibly, but my money would be on a Triple Rack from an aircraft suspended from a frame like we've seen on multiple trials shots. The UK has plenty of those in stock following Tornado retirement and its an MBDA piece of kit so they're very familiar with it. Would have thought it would be mounted on the back of a pick-up or flatbed to be honest.
 

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In reality, the far more likely explanation is that a Ukrainian unit with Brimstone was forced to displace in a hurry and left a missile behind. Possibly a non-functional round, or one they were in the process of loading when the Russians showed up.
I'd agree with this. Or a failure to fire that they failed to destroy before leaving the position (probably because to do so would have given their location away) can't imagine anyone would be too happy about picking up a dud to lug it with them...
Possibly. I guess I was assuming it was brought there on a vehicle and the vehicle would still be around, since I can't imagine anyone carrying a Brimstone launcher around.
 

TomS

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In reality, the far more likely explanation is that a Ukrainian unit with Brimstone was forced to displace in a hurry and left a missile behind. Possibly a non-functional round, or one they were in the process of loading when the Russians showed up.
I'd agree with this. Or a failure to fire that they failed to destroy before leaving the position (probably because to do so would have given their location away) can't imagine anyone would be too happy about picking up a dud to lug it with them...
Possibly. I guess I was assuming it was brought there on a vehicle and the vehicle would still be around, since I can't imagine anyone carrying a Brimstone launcher around.

Could have been in the process of transferring from one vehicle (resupply) to another (the launcher).
 

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At last some sanity, maybe we can finally lay those Harpoon rumours to rest now.
Hopefully those Harpoon rounds will be refurbished before being sent to Ukraine.

Anyway it's good to see the Brimstone is already kicking arse there.
 

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