MBDA' Brimstone

NMaude said:
timmymagic said:
No. Long since superceded by Brimstone 2 and now Brimstone 3A.
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Ah! So a convenient excuse for the UK MoD to clear out its old stock of Brimstone 1s and replace them with new stuff.
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Brimstone 1 will be approaching end of life over the next 5-10 years. Just under half the original production of B1 (c2300 original production, around 1,000 converted) was converted into Dual Mode Brimstone and expended over Libya, Iraq, Afghanistan and Syria. Those have all been replaced with new production Brimstone 2 and 3. Some B1 will have been expended in training and around 60 of B1 were used in Libya. None have been used in Afg or Iraq/Syria under Operations Shader, Herrick or Telic. There was probably just over 1,000 Brimstone 1 left in stockpile at the start of the war. I expect the RAF will be very happy to replace with Brimstone 3....that is of course if the Treasury fund replacement with 3A and 3B...
 
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timmymagic said:
NMaude said:
Is the Brimstone 1 still in production?
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No. Long since superceded by Brimstone 2 and now Brimstone 3A. 3B will take over from 3A shortly as the sole production variant.
Apart from increasing range, accuracy and other performance metrics one of the main purposes of the Brimstone 2 and 3 variants was to remove obsolescence, make the missiles IM-compliant and ITAR free.
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Thought they were still being produced for outstanding export contracts, thanks for the correction.
 
Relevant to Patriot and Stinger as well...

MBDA Deutschland at Schrobenhausen looking to expand production units and maintenance....and allegedly.... Germany will, finally, be getting Brimstone on Typhoon...

https://esut.de/en/2023/05/meldungen/41993/mbda-deutschland-baut-missile-hubs-auf/

"In addition, preparations are underway to procure the Brimstone air-to-surface guided missile for the Air Force, which is to be integrated on the Eurofighter, as Guido Brendler, Head of Sales and Business Development at MBDA, explained at a press event in Schrobenhausen today. The selection decision to introduce this weapon had already been made in the past decade, but was then no longer pursued with vigour. Here, too, MBDA Germany is thinking of an assembly line for the missile developed by the British sister company at the Schrobenhausen site."
 
Why when MBDA have licensed a Polish factory?
 
Looks like there might be another Brimstone platform shortly.

Falco Xplorer is ITAR free so I suspect the choice of the ITAR free Brimstone 3 was pretty straightforward as well.

Sounds like this is at the request of customers as well...users of the previous generation include Pakistan, Saudi Arabia and Jordan (who ditched their Chinese CH-4 due to issues). Suspect the market for Xplorer will be more of the same..

breakingdefense.com

Leonardo moves out with Brimstone missile integration on Falco Xplorer MALE UAV - Breaking Defense

Leonardo’s approach mirrors a similar effort that saw the Falco Evo, upon which the Falco Xplorer is based, developed into the "Astore" armed UAV in 2017.
breakingdefense.com breakingdefense.com
 
Hood said:
At last some sanity, maybe we can finally lay those Harpoon rumours to rest now.
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Harpoon is a very different role to Brimstone, so anyone suggesting Harpoon for swarming small boats is on some really good drugs!

If this works, I'd like to see the USN look at Longbow Hellfires or Hellfire -Ns for the same job. Hellfire N has dual laser and MMWR seeker with a thermobaric warhead. Might need to swap out the thermobaric with a tandem charge but only the lead charge is shaped.
 
Scott Kenny said:
Hood said:
At last some sanity, maybe we can finally lay those Harpoon rumours to rest now.
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Harpoon is a very different role to Brimstone, so anyone suggesting Harpoon for swarming small boats is on some really good drugs!

If this works, I'd like to see the USN look at Longbow Hellfires or Hellfire -Ns for the same job. Hellfire N has dual laser and MMWR seeker with a thermobaric warhead. Might need to swap out the thermobaric with a tandem charge but only the lead charge is shaped.
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The Navy already has Longbow Hellfire as part of the LCS Surface Warfare module.
 
TomS said:
Scott Kenny said:
Hood said:
At last some sanity, maybe we can finally lay those Harpoon rumours to rest now.
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Harpoon is a very different role to Brimstone, so anyone suggesting Harpoon for swarming small boats is on some really good drugs!

If this works, I'd like to see the USN look at Longbow Hellfires or Hellfire -Ns for the same job. Hellfire N has dual laser and MMWR seeker with a thermobaric warhead. Might need to swap out the thermobaric with a tandem charge but only the lead charge is shaped.
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The Navy already has Longbow Hellfire as part of the LCS Surface Warfare module.
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I mean on more than just LCS.
 
New Brimstone platform just dropped....

https://twitter.com/x/status/1701650127708991616
View: https://twitter.com/BritishArmy/status/1701650127708991616

https://imgur.com/vbunSwP
View: https://imgur.com/vbunSwP


Using a British Hydra UAV...which uses a jet turbine unlike the previously seen Malloy T-650.

HYDRA DRONES

Hydra is a British UAV technology business founded in October 2019 to reinvent heavy lift UAV’s and pioneer the hybrid Jet-Electric concept. Our unparalleled lift capacity, speed and range allow for deployment in any industry sector.
www.hydradrones.com www.hydradrones.com

Article Text

A drone that fires laser-guided missiles will be the centrepiece of a major international Defence exhibition in London from 12 to 15 September.
Featuring over 1,500 defence and security suppliers, DSEI 2023 at the ExCeL will bring together governments, the armed forces and industry representatives from all over the world.

On display at the British Army’s stand at DSEI will be the Hydra 400 drone alongside an Aether mothership.

The Hydra 400 is a pioneering new generation of heavy lift drone using hybrid propulsion technology. Compact and portable, the drone can be transported in the back of a Hilux or similar and assembled ready for flight in six minutes.

The drone is powered by single spool jet turbines, producing 500N (50kg) thrust providing a maximum lift of 400kg.

Ministry of Defence (MoD) funding will be needed for Hydra Drones Ltd, the company that developed Hydra 400, to progress the concept.

It is proposed that the Hydra 400 carry a lethal payload, the Brimstone missile developed by Stevenage-based MBDA, which is the strategic partner to the MoD for complex weapons

The Brimstone missile weighs 50kg, is 1.8 metres in length and has a 180mm diameter. It is guided by millimetric wave radar and semi-active laser.

Brimstone offers ‘one missile, multi-platform’ versatility and is designed to be integrated onto helicopters, fixed wing aircraft, including fast jets, land vehicles, naval platforms and unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs).

The missile is battle proven with over 98% success rate in defeating static, moving and manoeuvring target sets including main battle tanks and other armoured vehicles.

An Anduril Ghost Drone provides real time Artificial Intelligence, surveillance and multi-mission reconnaissance capability. Combined with the versatility of the Hydra drone and the precision of the Brimstone missile, this is a fully automated ‘end to end’ decision support weapon system.

Joining forces with Hydra Drones in this innovative sovereign capability, that can be delivered at pace with the right investment, is an exciting joint Army/industry opportunity.DAVE ‘POS’ POSTLETHWAITE MBE, MBDA’S HEAD OF UAS SALES
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General Sir Patrick Sanders, Army Chief of the General Staff, says:

“We are responding to the operating environment that we see in Ukraine. For example, I am struck by the fact that in the evolving Ukraine drone campaign, 40% of losses are attributed to pilot error.

“When the electro-magnetic spectrum is so heavily contested, automation fails, and the skill of the pilot predominates. We need ‘war fighters’ – whether they are cyber specialist, drone pilots or infantry soldiers – to be stronger, faster, more intelligent and more resilient.

“By the end of this year, we will form a new UAS Group within a reorientated Joint Aviation Command, providing a focal point for industry, around which we intend to develop the next generation of UAS platforms in ever closer partnership.”

At DSEI earlier today, General Sir Patrick Sanders spoke about the continued restructure and modernisation of the Army, in line with its Future Soldier programme and informed by the lessons of Ukraine.

If funding is provided by the MoD, Hydra and a dummy-payload representing Brimstone will be tested during the next phase of the Army’s Warfighting Experiment (AWE).

This is a series of trials and experiments across the UK and overseas where industry partners have been tasked with providing solutions to the challenges of urban warfare, harnessing tech to prepare for complex future warfare.

The next AWE phase, known as Exercise Blunting Strike, will take place at Copehill Down in November.

Dr Stephen Prior, CEO of Hydra Drones Ltd said:

“The Army Warfighting Experiment has provided the framework and opportunity for British SMEs, like Hydra Drones Ltd, to collaborate with traditional primes, such as MBDA, but also to be competitive in their own right and innovate at a speed that larger companies might struggle with.”

Dave ‘Pos’ Postlethwaite MBE, MBDA’s Head of UAS sales said:

“MBDA is committed to supporting the British Army by delivering cutting edge and UK sovereign battle-winning technology in-line with the Land Industrial Strategy, Op Mobilise and Future Soldier.

"Joining forces with Hydra Drones in this innovative sovereign capability, that can be delivered at pace with the right investment, is an exciting joint Army/industry opportunity.”

In the forefront of the Army’s Future Soldier programme is 2nd Battalion The Royal Yorkshire Regiment who are testing cutting-edge technology.

With drones taking centre stage on battlefields across the globe, cutting-edge uncrewed aircraft systems (UAS) have been tested by the Army.

At last year’s Army Warfighting Experiment in Portsmouth Naval Base, a range of UAS systems that use different technologies to defeat drones were put through their paces.

One such system was the Wingman, a wearable RF sensor for drone detection, and the Pitbull, a wearable jammer that utilises smart jamming to defeat enemy drones. This effective portable counter-UAS system will protect dismounted soldiers and ensure they are less susceptible to detection and attack.

Some of the other unique drone capabilities tested included carrying blood plasma to injured soldiers on the battlefield while other drones demonstrated how it can evacuate casualties.

The Hydra XL 300 and Malloy T400 drones, for instance, showed how they could lift a casualty of up to 120kg over a range of up to 25km, with spare capacity and zero emissions.

The results of AWE will provide evidence to inform the Army and Defence which capabilities should be invested in and developed for the Army to remain competitive on the global stage.

This collaboration with industry is about using the solutions they already have, to counter the problems faced by the British Army, without spending time and money going back to the drawing board and starting from scratch.
 
Scott Kenny said:
Hydra 400 is a big drone, Brimstones are ~100lbs/45kg each
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HYDRA 400 has a payload of 400kg over 25 km, supposedly. It's interesting in having a hybrid propulsion, with Jet-A powered microturbines as well as electric rotors. I assume it needs the turbines with that heavy payload but can get home on the electric motors once the payload (and jet fuel) are expended.

www.hydradrones.com

Performance

www.hydradrones.com www.hydradrones.com

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Does anyone know whether Brimstone has altimeter? or whether it can control the cruising altitude?
 
Ronny said:
Does anyone know whether Brimstone has altimeter? or whether it can control the cruising altitude?
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It doesn't have an altimeter as far as I know, it would rely on its' autopilot for altitude and attitude information.
 
It uses the seeker for terrain avoidance, which suggests it can measure altitude somehow. Probably just by calculating from angle, attitude, and slant-range to the ground, as DWG suggests. Whether cruise altitude or desired terrain clearance height is field-adjustable in unclear, but I'd guess not, from the public briefings.
 
Germany purchasing Brimstone for Typhoon.

Like the Spanish order it will be comparatively small, 274 missiles. But the German's looking to set up a facility to produce Brimstone could mean that there may be more in the pipeline.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1749773936789954979
View: https://twitter.com/GuyPlopsky/status/1749773936789954979?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet


Germany to equip Eurofighters with Brimstone

Germany is to equip its Eurofighter combat aircraft with the MBDA Brimstone air-to-surface missile, the government revealed on 17 January.
www.janes.com
 
Just a reminder that Siverskyi Donets happened on the 5-13th May.

The first images we saw of the launcher system was on the 12th May (but filmed earlier in testing) and a Brimstone missile was seen on the 6th May. This means that the launcher must have been up and running for trials in the UK in mid-April at the latest.
 
I wonder if the Brits will take a page from the Boeing/SAAB GLSDB and extend the range of the GL Brimstone by mounting it on an M26 rocket-motor with a suitable adapter?
 
NMaude said:
I wonder if the Brits will take a page from the Boeing/SAAB GLSDB and extend the range of the GL Brimstone by mounting it on an M26 rocket-motor with a suitable adapter?
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I see a whole lot of various aircraft weapons getting a ground launch option via recycled M26s. I'd giggle if someone made an interstage for either 250lb or 500lb JDAMs!
 
Scott Kenny said:
I'd giggle if someone made an interstage for either 250lb or 500lb JDAMs!
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I wouldn't be surprised at all however there is currently no 250Lb JDAM variant but that wouldn't be hard to implement, a 500Lb GLJDAM would need to have folding tailffins though.
 
NMaude said:
I wonder if the Brits will take a page from the Boeing/SAAB GLSDB and extend the range of the GL Brimstone by mounting it on an M26 rocket-motor with a suitable adapter?
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Think this has been suggested before. And in truth I don't think there would be much point as hitting a moving target at range would be incredibly difficult. By the time a fire order had been received and the missile arrived in the target area the enemy target may have moved out of the Brimstone seekers range. Bit like the problem that ASROC and Mk.46 had if a Sov boat was moving at full speed...

Obviously it would be different if there was somone lasing the target, but thats probably unlikely and you might as well then use GLSDB with the laser seeker head...

UK seems to be going down the Land Precision Strike route out to c80km (I did see figures of 150km, but in retrospect I think the MoD were talking about the LRAE) and GMLRS-ER launched Outrider UAS and FFLMM munitions as a GMLRS-ER payload in the LRAE programme. That covers off moving targets pretty well.

There is the MRUSW munition coming down the line, which will likely be a Spear variant with equivalent capabilities to SDB1. But as GLSDB comes as a sealed round I can't imagine there being any reason to duplicate the effort involved just to stick a UK munition on the top that would have similar performance, but much higher cost due to economies of scale.
 
timmymagic said:
There is the MRUSW munition coming down the line, which will likely be a Spear variant with equivalent capabilities to SDB1. But as GLSDB comes as a sealed round I can't imagine there being any reason to duplicate the effort involved just to stick a UK munition on the top that would have similar performance, but much higher cost due to economies of scale.
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The only thing I can think of is as a way to use up any UK-stored MLRS rocket motors that haven't been demilled yet.
 
Scott Kenny said:
The only thing I can think of is as a way to use up any UK-stored MLRS rocket motors that haven't been demilled yet.
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Believe, with predictable MoD efficiency, that we reported complete on destruction of all cluster munitions some time ago...a lot of fairly new 155mm DPICM and M26, plus BL755, JP233 and CRV-7 MPSM all gone.
 
NMaude said:
Stuff Ukraine could've used.
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To be fair we had to do so by a certain date to comply with the Convention.

A convention I'm afraid to say we should leave....cluster munitions are massively effective, and tying our hands behind our back whilst the likes of Russia, China and Iran continue to use them and manufacture is insane...perhaps a no-first use policy could be applied...

TsrJoe said:
Some supplies of BL-755 were supplied to Saudi Arabia (used in Yemen)
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Only prior to the signing of the Convention. BL755 were supplied in the main in the 80's and 90's.
 

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