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SAAB Fighter / Attack projects

ivran

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Does somebody have 3-view of SAAB projects 1404 and 1410,very interesning airplanes
thenks in advance
 

hesham

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Amazing find PlanesPictures.
 

hesham

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From Авиация и Космонавтика 9/2015,

here is a SAAB Projects 37-1,P.1500-01 & P.1509,the later concept was very similar to
BAe Harrier.
 

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FighterJock

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hesham said:
From Авиация и Космонавтика 9/2015,

here is a SAAB Projects 37-1,P.1500-01 & P.1509,the later concept was very similar to
BAe Harrier.
Great find hesham. The engine nozzle layout on the P.1509 is also like the Pegasus four poster nozzles.
 

hesham

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FighterJock said:
Great find hesham. The engine nozzle layout on the P.1509 is also like the Pegasus four poster nozzles.
Thank you FighterJock.
 

Grey Havoc

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Meant to post this a few days ago: http://www.tboverse.us/HPCAFORUM/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=20996&sid=77b59dc45ff1d437027ab56ac5d98382
 

glanini

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This is my first post on this forum, I wanted to share my profile for Saab Sa39 as an attack airplane



and as a trainer



Regards
 

hesham

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Very nice work,thank you Glanini.
 

Pioneer

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They look very purposeful Glanini

Regards
Pioneer
 

hesham

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Apophenia said:
hesham said:
nice find,but are you sure it's real design ?,it looks like Fairchild/Republic A-10.
IPMS Stockholm hasa Swedish what-if discussion but P1642-06 seems to have been real ... a part of projekt/studie 'Flygplan 80'

"SAAB Project: 1642-06 FLP Klass B3LM, drawing from December in 1974. During B3LA epoch designed it actually an A-10-like draft, entitled 1642-06, class B3LM. Length around 12 m, span around 11 meters, 2 J-85 engines (the same as in the SAAB 105Ö)."

http://www.ipmsstockholm.se/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=574&start=70
A more Info about it;

The Soviet invasion of Czechoslovakia in 1968 would spark a wave of panic among Swedish military planners, spurring Saab to begin a new round of design studies for attack aircraft. Under a program known as B3LM, Saab aimed to create a lightweight attacker to supplement the Viggen. The most publicized of these design studies, the P.1642, would end up looking alarmingly similar to the American A-10. Though significantly smaller and lacking a gun, Saab’s B3LM design shared the characteristic twin-tail and widely-spaced engines of the A-10. The nose seems to be configured for some kind of sensors, and five underwing hardpoints (one on either side of the main landing gear and one centerline) were planned in addition to wingtip rails for AIM-9s. A radar was not planned to be installed on the design in hopes of keeping costs low. Power was to come from two compact Rolls Royce RB 401 high-bypass turbofans, sacrificing performance and thrust for efficiency. As with most of Saab’s design studies, the P.1642 was a dead end. The B3LM program was abandoned for unknown reasons sometime in the mid-70’s as Sweden chose to focus efforts on the more advanced B3LA attacker program.
https://kplanes.tumblr.com/post/134991029380/k-planes-episode-89-saab
 

blockhaj

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hesham said:
Nice find Blockhaj.
Found it laying around in a box full of J-21 blueprints. Found the J-24 in the same box.
 

hesham

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blockhaj said:
Found it laying around in a box full of J-21 blueprints. Found the J-24 in the same box.
Good news Blockhaj,please send those drawings,but for J-24,please send it in its topic;

http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,3401.msg298354.html#msg298354
 

blockhaj

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hesham said:
blockhaj said:
Found it laying around in a box full of J-21 blueprints. Found the J-24 in the same box.
Good news Blockhaj,please send those drawings,but for J-24,please send it in its topic;

http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,3401.msg298354.html#msg298354
I took a quick look at the J-24 blueprints and it was mostly interior stuff and rivets etc. I couldnt find a line drawing. I might have missed the line drawings since there was a bunch of unnamed rolls in the box. I didnt photograf it. Although i know the line drawing exist since i have found bad copies of it online. Im gonna look for it and post it in the thread.
Also the pic i posted is 12000x7000 which might have ben a bad idea. The lines are really unclear so i cant make it much smaller. Instead im working on redrawing it with thicker lines and in a smaller size.
Here are some original pics though.
Side view

Top view, the tail is the same as on the A variant

Front view

Stats
 

VictorXL188

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In regards to Reply #171 on: April 03, 2017, 05:49:56 am from Hesham/Apophenia in regards to the B3 project, I am not certain that this does in fact relate to project Flygplan 80. I am basing this on an article I found in Air Enthusiast International which I have attached. This states that Flygplan 80 was in fact to be the Viggen successor, ie Gripen.
 

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hesham

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Maybe it was anther Project,to be honest,I don't know,someone can help us ?.
 

JFC Fuller

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Apparently, until 1982 the Garrett (now Honeywell) TFE1042 was a candidate for the JAS-39, that being the case there must be a drawing somewhere of a twin-engined Gripen featuring a pair of the engines?
 

hesham

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JFC Fuller said:
Apparently, until 1982 the Garrett (now Honeywell) TFE1042 was a candidate for the JAS-39, that being the case there must be a drawing somewhere of a twin-engined Gripen featuring a pair of the engines?
That's new for me,and goof work from Blockhaj.
 

blockhaj

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I can do some digging. The B3 if after the wiggen should eefer to either a prop trainer/aerobatics plane, the Saab 38, Saab 2000 or Gripen which are the known projects saab did after the Viggen, there are more but these are the ones i know got fairly deep into development.
 

hesham

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blockhaj said:
I can do some digging. The B3 if after the wiggen should eefer to either a prop trainer/aerobatics plane, the Saab 38, Saab 2000 or Gripen which are the known projects saab did after the Viggen, there are more but these are the ones i know got fairly deep into development.
That will be nice if you send them Blockhaj.
 

blockhaj

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I finally went and looked for stuff named Saab B3 but everything that came up is the Saab variant of the Ju 86. Gonna do some internet search.
 

blockhaj

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So the Saab 38 is apparently the only military attacker plane they worked on between the viggen and gripen. It was a small all weather attack, recce and trainer plane. ASSK 38 or SKAS 38 would be the designation. Attack, Spaning, skolflygplan or Skolflygplan, Attack, Spaning.

Anyway

B3LM was the A-10 look-alike
B3LA was the Saab 38

B3L(X) is often called the class of the plane in the sources i can find.
Should exist B3L A-M at least.
 

hesham

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Can you display them dear Blockhaj ?,and thanks.
 

blockhaj

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hesham said:
Can you display them dear Blockhaj ?,and thanks.
Most of the sources had already been displayed earlier in this thread although some of them where in Swedish so i thought i could clarify. Since the Saab 38 is still sort of classified as its still a project which they could build, sort of like Strv 2000 there is still a lot of info which could be discovered. The B3LM though seems to have never went beyond maybe a few days of work. Seing as there should exist B3LA to atleast M there where probably a lot of paper designs made.
 

hesham

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OK dear Blockhaj,

and maybe you will find more info in this anther topic,but no drawing
for B3L(X).

https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,147.0.html
 

blockhaj

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Some info from a friend about the Saab 38.

Name was to be SAAB A 38 in attack service and Sk 38 in Trainer service
The engine was to be 1x Rolls-Royce Spey 807
Max speed 914 km/h
Crew 2
Length 12,82 m
Height 4,83 m
Wingspan 9,7 m
Max weight 17 025 kg
Armament 1x 30 mm Oerlikon (JA 37); 3 800 kg of bombs, 2x Sidewinder, 2x Rb 15 and attack rockets

The A-10 look alike would probably have had a very similar layout including the 30 mm. A 37 mm isnt too impossible as well seeing as this was in service on the Viggen at the time.
Since it has 4 main hardpoints which all seems to be of the same type i guess its even possible to carry 4x rb 15 which would make it great for marine warfare. For rockets looking at the viggen again it should be 4 rocket pods with 6x 135-mm rockets in each pod adding up to 24 rockets. For bombs it should be able to carry like 8x 120 kg bombs per hardpoint adding up to 3840 kg of bombs in total or something.
 

fightingirish

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hesham said:
Hi,
here is a drawing to SAAB-29R Project with a more capability radar.

Flygvapennytt 2-1972
hesham said:
Here a scan showing a Saab J29D with a radar, which soon later became the project Saab J29R.

dizzyfugu said:
Sweden is a prolific whiffing territory, and the Saab 29 offers some interesting options. The all-weather Tunnan was a real Saab project, and things actually got as far as the aforementioned radome shape test stage. But eventually the project was fully dropped, since Saab had been busy with standard J 29 production and conversions, so that this aircraft never materialized, just as the projected side-by-side trainer Sk 29 of the same era.

However, I recently came across a nice Saab 29 book which also covers some projects – including drawings of the radar-equipped Tunnan that never was. My converted model with the thimble radome and the raked air intake is based on these drawings.[...]
Secondary source: https://flic.kr/p/C5Arsw
The book aka primary source is unknown so far. I will find it out later. :)
Edit:
Primary source:
SAAB 29 Flygande Tunnan (Yellow Series) Paperback – May 8, 2017
by Mikael Forslund (Author), Thierry Vallet (Illustrator)
Link: http://www.mmpbooks.biz/ksiazki/352
Another interesting book:
Tunnor som inte blev till
Lennart Berns: SK 29 och J 29R projekterades
in the book
Flygande Tunnan : En Antologi by Lennart Berns, Björn Amelin (1996-06-01)

dizzyfugu's model of a J29R at our sister forum whatifmodellers:
dizzyfugu - Saab J29D Tunnan all-weather fighter; “Röd Rudolf” of Swedish Air Force F1

Edit 2008-04-13:
fightingirish said:
Secondary sources via Google picture search:
http://flygvapnet.blog.hu/2015/02/21/saab_j_29_tunnan_ii_resz
 

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hesham

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Wow,thank you my dear Rolf.
 

blockhaj

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There where also plans for a 30 mm armed variant of the D/R variant. I bet this one would have a smaller weapons radar in the wing, similar to the model planned on the J 21B, J 24, BJ 18B and what was used in the J 35 later.
 

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hesham

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A clearer view,thank you dear Blockhaj,

and the lower drawing is new for me.
 

blockhaj

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hesham said:
A clearer view,thank you dear Blockhaj,

and the lower drawing is new for me.
Ye, considering that it doesnt have the nose radar it think this was an attempt to create an interceptor instead of an all weather fighter. But we got air to air missiles in the early 50's so this conversion wasnt needed. The creation of the Saab 32 also lead to the cancellation of the J29R as it was a superior all weather fighter.
 

blockhaj

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Ive read somewhere that a mockup was made and failed.
 
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