Piaggio P. 23R

archipeppe

archipeppe

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Here it is my personal contribution about the matter.

Less known Italian prototype of mid-30's, born as record breaker (and eventually succeded in it) was also utilized as fake bomber during WWII in order to mislead Allies. During 1942 it was seriously considered as potential "America Bomber" for a single hit run over New York with no return possibility (the crew should be rescued in open sea by Italian ocean going submarine).

Anyway the only prototype crashed during 1942 and it was scrapped.
 

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Congrats!!! Very nice work. Thank for call my attention to a very interesting plane.
Regards
Luis
 
theponja said:
Congrats!!! Very nice work. Thank for call my attention to a very interesting plane.
Regards
Luis
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You're welcomed!!! :D
 
Beautiful beast and nice drawings, thanks archipeppe and congrats for your work!
 
Thanks Peppe for your continuous work about the lesser known Italian multi-engine planes.
In fact we had seen the P.23 only in wooden-color models or black and white photos and is really a pleasure to see it in its true red colors

Nico
 
I wanna thank to all folks for kind words about my work.

@Nico, I've based my colour paint scheme for early P. 23R upon the famous SM-79 red paint scheme for the "Istres - Damasco - Parigi".
 
Was it engine problems or powerplant/material shortages that precluded development of a production version? Even in limited numbers it would seem like a Military version could have been useful, IMHO.
 
Grey Havoc said:
Was it engine problems or powerplant/material shortages that precluded development of a production version? Even in limited numbers it would seem like a Military version could have been useful, IMHO.
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It is dificult to answer it, probably Nico or Skybolt would do it better.
My guess is that P 23R was meant only for record purposes (like many other Italian aircraft of that times) and a military version could produce the same disastrous results of Breda Ba 88....
 
Why is the fuselage so wide? Was it mean't to carry some kind of commercial payload (post?)?

Terry (Caravellarella)
 
Outstanding illustration, as usual Archipeppe.

This made me do a little research. Per Wikipedia, the aircraft was designed to set commercial transport records, which explains the wide, unique fuselage cross-section.

Your first version with the abrupt canopies drew my attention. I would think the vertical back of the canopy would have created substantial drag.

In any case, that long wide nose must have made landings fun and challenging.

I second the others here. Thank you very much for documenting another aircraft that I was not familiar with. Makes me dig into some fun research.

Steve Austin
 
SAustin16 said:
Outstanding illustration, as usual Archipeppe.

This made me do a little research. Per Wikipedia, the aircraft was designed to set commercial transport records, which explains the wide, unique fuselage cross-section.

Your first version with the abrupt canopies drew my attention. I would think the vertical back of the canopy would have created substantial drag.

In any case, that long wide nose must have made landings fun and challenging.

I second the others here. Thank you very much for documenting another aircraft that I was not familiar with. Makes me dig into some fun research.

Steve Austin
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Thanks for your kind words Steve, I fully agree with you about the first canopy design, it is clear that the designer tried to reduce drag effect through the new canopies.

I also agree with you about take off and landing challenges, with this very long nose only skilled pilots could make airborne this beast even if I wonder about a periscope could help pilots during landing, but I've any clue about a periscope or other helping device....
 
archipeppe, any idea what bombloads were proposed for the 'America Bomber' operation?
 
Grey Havoc said:
archipeppe, any idea what bombloads were proposed for the 'America Bomber' operation?
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Unfortunately not, the declared payload was 4.500 Kg but (obviously) for New York bomb run should be less (much less).
The latest word from Mussolini about the New York raid was to not drop bomb over the town but propaganda papers (like the Vienna raid of D'Annunzio during WWI) or a load of Sicilian Oranges (seriously!!) with tri-colour parachutes....

toura said:
some details
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Many thanks for such new (at least to me) details. :D
 
Can I ask for the specifications for this aircraft? Because I've been surfing but I can't found lenght , wingspan, etc.
 
theponja said:
Can I ask for the specifications for this aircraft? Because I've been surfing but I can't found lenght , wingspan, etc.
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According to "Prototipi della Regia Aeronautica" by Nico Sgarlato (Delta Editrice):
wingspan: 29 meters
lenght: 23,5 meters
height: 4,93 meters
wing surface: 91,5 sqm
empty mass: 8.900 kg
total mass: 23.900 kg
 
Hi fellows,
I enclose an interesting rear view of the P.23R and one of its Piaggio P.XI RC.40 engine, developed copy of the French Gnome-et-RH^one GR.14K Mistral Major.
In Mr. Piaggio and Eng. Casiraghi intention the P.23R was only a record plane. Notwithstanding, Casiraghi had the idea of developing it in something like the SIAI-Marchetti SM.82 Marsupiale. In 1938-1939 the technical bureau of Piaggio spent 18.680 hours of engineering work, proposing a BGR (Bombardiere a Grande Raggio, long range bomber), perhaps P.123B, but I failed to find proof of that designation) as an interim solution waiting for the definitive P.1008B re-engined with P.XII RC.35 Tornado. Piaggio offered a prototype after Ministero dell'Aeronautica interest for three aircraft. Work started on a wing structure, but the program was soon cancelled to avoid waste of resources during the P.108/P.133 development.
In the meantime there was the study of a transport version (P.123T) but the requirement was already fulfilled by SM.82 and P.108T and any development work was suspended.
Nico
 

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Grey Havoc said:
archipeppe, any idea what bombloads were proposed for the 'America Bomber' operation?
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The intended bombload for the Manhattan operation was a single 1,000 kg bomb
Nico
 
Nico said:
Grey Havoc said:
archipeppe, any idea what bombloads were proposed for the 'America Bomber' operation?
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The intended bombload for the Manhattan operation was a single 1,000 kg bomb
Nico
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An incendiary bomb?
 
I don't know if the planning reached the stage of devising the exact type of weapon. I know that some high brasses proposed a psy-war mission with the launch of a ton of leaflets and, according to Giancarlo Garello, one of the first author on that matter, was considered also a 'warload' of 1,000 kg of Sicily oranges...

Nico
 
Thanks, archipeppe, Nico. Question: just how deadly are Sicily oranges?
getsmiley.php
 
Hi!

Thanks to the all contributors! Do you have data or suggestions on the such wide fuselage?
I think that most fule in long-range aircraft has been stored mainly in wings, and for bomber there is no need for such capacious fuslage.

So - what's inside?
 
Amazing artwork, Archipeppe,
I was surprised by the wide fuselage, that is clear in your graphic, now i undestend because ... somebady think maybe was possibile a mission over New York; It was also felt in another plane for this purpose, this was the Cant Z.511, armed with a human torpedo or assault boat, which would be carried in a gondola between the floats.
Again wonderful Job!

Saludos
MC72
 

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MC72 said:
Amazing artwork, Archipeppe,
I was surprised by the wide fuselage, that is clear in your graphic, now i undestend because ... somebady think maybe was possibile a mission over New York; It was also felt in another plane for this purpose, this was the Cant Z.511, armed with a human torpedo or assault boat, which would be carried in a gondola between the floats.
Again wonderful Job!

Saludos
MC72
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Many thanks MC-72, I also always liked your outstanding graphic jobs ;D.

Actually there were a bunch of aircrafts that was seriously considered for the "Operazione S" (New York Raid), according to the old Aerei's article I've mentioned before, and they was for sure P. 23R, Z. 511 and SM- 95B.
 
MC72 said:
Thanks for the info of the SM95 was also considered, I didn't know that extra candidate.
Also i found in Flight http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1940/1940%20-%201708.html this report of article short after Italy declare War in WW2, a impression of P.23 as bomber Belived to be a P.123 trimotor bomber
Saludos
MC72
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Strange give error ! :-\

http://www.flightglobal.com/sitemap/pdfyearsegment/441/1940/35/Page1.htm

1708 pdf !
 
Problem with the Link!!
well i send the image in cuestion os the Flight Magazine page 528 (13june 1940)same date of Today but 71 Years Ago!!!
Saludos
MC72
 

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Hello everyone.
Here I am with a little contribution.
Paint scheme was the very first one, as shown in a post above, no titles (I-ABOC), no "PF" roundels on the wings, no (green?) decorations on the nacelles.
Cheers,
Marco
 

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You guys are amazing. Another WW2 vintage plane to dig around and research. This is the best board......

Thanks for posting this
Mike
 

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