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Some projects by Giovanni Pegna for Piaggio and Caproni

Nico

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Hi boys,
I found for you an intriguing matter. In the present days archives of Piaggio Aero there is a picture (I enclose it), vaguely captioned 'Simulacro in legno' (wooden mock-up). I asked the engineer in charge of the picture files and he said he was unable to identify the mock-up.
It appear to me definitely designed from ing. Giovanni Pegna and his team. In the past (early thirties) Pegna investigated flying wings and some sort of blended wings. I enclose also a slide depicting three wind tunnel models. On the left we can see partially a version of the P.50; in the middle there is a P.16 (or a variant of it), and on the right, in background, there is what seems to be, for all intents and purposes, a flying wing. Moreover I have vague memories of other Pegna's flying wings or projects with leading edge roots blended with fuselage.
The picture of the mock-up in fact resembles an aircraft that Pegna designed during the period of the autonomous design bureau linked to Reggiane; eventually in 1936 Pegna designed the Caproni Ca.401 as answer to the request from Regia Aeronautica of a Caccia da combattimento bimotore (twin-engined heavy fighter). The program was discontinued when a very embryonic mock-up was built.
The intriguing fact is that the mystery pic comes out of Piaggio Aero archives, leading (in my opinion) to three orders of hypothesis: first, the Piaggio mock-up is a different type from Ca.401 that both the Piaggio historian and I are unable to identify; second, the project is a forerunner of Ca.401 designed during the Piaggio period of ing. Pegna; third, the mock-up is really related to the Ca.401 and for one or another reason is now in the Piaggio collection.
Skybolt, what your opinion is?
Nico

P.s.:
Two pictues and a multi-view drawing are from archives of my friend late Sergio Govi (I had the pleasure of working with him for several reasearch about Reggiane) and are published also on the series of Sergio's book for Giorgio Apostolo Editore
 

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Pelzig

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The flying wing in the back appears to be Pegna's 1928 flying wing seaplane bomber design. It isn't an exact match so, who can say for sure, though. But, there is some similarity. Maybe a land based version?



Nico said:
In the past (early thirties) Pegna investigated flying wings and some sort of blended wings. I enclose also a slide depicting three wind tunnel models. On the left we can see partially a version of the P.50; in the middle there is a P.16 (or a variant of it), and on the right, in background, there is what seems to be, for all intents and purposes, a flying wing.
 

theponja

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I've played a bit with the image and I agree the flying wing looks like the Pegna's 1928 project. The flying wing has a very high vertical stabilizer like the project.

Do you have more information about the P.16? Like the 3d view ? Because I just can found a picture online.

Regards
Luis
 

Skybolt

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I have somewhere a collection of every known projects by Pegna (photocopies from a variety of sources). I'll check. The Ca.401 could be in Piaggio's archives because it was given by Pegna to Casiraghi (Casiraghi had respect for Pegna). Another explanation could be that Pegna started to design a two-engine airplane still in Piaggio and carried it over in Reggiane when it was ousted by Piaggio's shareholders (with a not little help from Regia...). All in all, Pegna was a visionary aerodynamicist but very weak on structures. A blended body like the Ca.401s would have been a challenge in England (the Miles X series...), imagine in Italy. In 1942, Bazzocchi resorted to leave alone the blended configuration of his EB-6 just for fabricability considerations (and it was 1942).
 

Nico

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...about a private message from Retrofit,
I initially was unable to obtain from my scanner a better resolution of the original 35-mm slide depicting the wind tunnel models of P.16 and Pegna flying wing. Then I obtained a larger JPG but I was unable to send it Retrofit via a private message and then I decided to enclosed it here

Nico

P. S.
In the meantime I'll look for drawings and pics of the P.16...
 

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Retrofit

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Thank you very much, Nico, I really appreciate!

All the best,

Philippe
 

hesham

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Hi,


the Caproni Ca.400.
 

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Maveric

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Thanks hesham for this beauty ;D
Can you tell us your source?


Thanks, Maveric
 

hesham

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My dear Maveric,


here is the source;
http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Caproni_Ca.400_3-view.svg
 

hesham

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Hi,


here is a three Models to Caproni-Pegna Ca.401 and Ca.402,the Ca,402 was at left,but
I think it was a heavier than Ca.401,has anyone a more info about it ?.


Storia degli Aerei Reggiane Gruppo Caproni p.5. Fotoalbum 'Reggiane'
 

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hesham

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From Aeronautica Italiana 1923,


here is a strange three engined biplane flying boat project,designed by Pegna for Piaggio,
I can't ID it ?.
 

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hesham

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Hi,


also there is a anther two unknown flying boat Projects,designed by Pegna for Piaggio,
appeared in Aeronautica Italiana 1923,can anyone ID them ?.
 

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bigvlada

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Captions under photographs say that the first one is a fighter and the other one is reconnaissance plane.
 

hesham

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bigvlada said:
Captions under photographs say that the first one is a fighter and the other one is reconnaissance plane.


Thank you my dear Bigvlada.
 

blackkite

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Hi! Ca.401.

http://www.wikiwand.com/it/Caproni_Ca.401
"The Caproni Ca. 401 was a project of ing. John Palmer and the "Study Group patents Caproni" from a twin-engine fighter. It was partly made in February 1936 by the Officine Reggiane, was characterized by the presence of the two motors are enclosed in the fuselage, engines that sent the bike to the propellers located on the two wings of the linkages. This is to reduce the aircraft's frontal impact for maximum aerodynamic cleanliness due to lack of engine nacelles.
The project assessed three variants: monoderiva, unbraced twin tail and one with the classic presence two motor nacelles on the wings.
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=12292.0;attach=127941;image
Before the project was abandoned was built, the version with intrafusoliera engines, a full 50% wood mockup."

Ca.401 looks like Ca.400.
 

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hesham

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Excuse me if I repeat sending some drawings and pictures,

but let's go from first;

Flying Bomb : as I translate it,it was from Pegna to Caproni
Ca.400 : was a twin engined medium bomber,developed or based on Piaggio P.400
Ca.401 : was a twin engined recce fighter Project
 

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hesham

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And;

Ca.402 : was a twin engined high-wing flying boat Project
Ca.403 : was a four engined gull-wing multi-purpose flying boat Project
Ca.404 : was a three engined mid-wing medium bomber Project
 

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hesham

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And;

Ca.405 : was a twin engined record breaker aircraft
Ca.406 : was a four engined gull-wing amphibian flying boat Project
Ca.408 : was a twin engined mid-wing long distance racer airplane Project
Ca.410 : was a twin engined mid-wing recce bomber float seaplane Project
 

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hesham

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Finally;

Ca.415 : was a four engined civil amphibian Project
Ca.416 : was a 4/6 passenger twin engined civil amphibian Project
Ca.418 : was a 6/8 passenger twin engined civil amphibian Project


Source; Storia degli Aerei Reggiane Gruppo Caproni
 

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airman

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Which Reference ?! ???

"i Reggiane Dall'a Alla Z - Descrizione Tecnica Degli Aerei Reggiane" could be this !
 

hesham

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My dear Airman,

here is all the name of the source;
Storia degli Aerei Reggiane Gruppo Caproni. Il Caccia Re.2000 & Il Caccia Re.2001
 
P

pavel

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Beautiful boat! Good visual collection. Especially the first top. You know, in Russia, in the 30's, these projects were not in the official journals. Who wrote about the projects? Grokhovsky. "TM". 1936-41. I look, but not a fact. Grokhovsky was arrested in 1942 and died in the Gulag. Sorry for the comment. I looked at these flying boats and remembered Grochowski.
 

Maveric

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WOW..Hesham you made my day, big thanks for posting this great Projects.

Do you have also technical data for them..?
 

hesham

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Thank you my dears Pavel and maveric,

and here is all I have.
 

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hesham

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And;
 

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