• Hi Guest! Forum rules have been updated. All users please read here.

Nakajima Ki-201 Karyu and "J9N/J9Y" Kikka

hesham

CLEARANCE: Above Top Secret
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
24,252
Reaction score
1,053
Hi,


anther 3-view to Ki-201 Karyu.
 

Attachments

Stargazer2006

CLEARANCE: Above Top Secret
Staff member
Senior Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2009
Messages
13,242
Reaction score
100
Wow! Is it there for restoration only and then to be handed over to Japan?
 

Jemiba

CLEARANCE: Above Top Secret
Staff member
Top Contributor
Senior Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2006
Messages
8,022
Reaction score
212
Stargazer2006 said:
...Is it there for restoration only and then to be handed over to Japan?
From what can be found in Aeroplane Monthly and several sites (e.g
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/10/15/1246155/-Kikka-Japan-s-WW2-Jet-Fighter# or
http://www.warbirdradio.com/2011/03/nakajima-kikka-moves-to-new-smithsonian-restoration-center/ ),
it seems to be a project undertaken by the NASM alone, there's no mention of other parties
financially involved. So I think, it's not very probably to be given away after completion.
Even the Do 335 was only loaned by the NASM to the Deutsches Museum München for restoration (!)
and was later returned.
 

Pelzig

CLEARANCE: Secret
Joined
Oct 24, 2008
Messages
443
Reaction score
2
About time they start restoring this historic aircraft of Japanese aviation.
 

AeroFranz

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
May 4, 2008
Messages
2,166
Reaction score
27
The NASM has a backlog of tremendously important aircraft to restore. The order in which the restorations happen are sometimes dictated by unfortunate (but understandable) circumstances. Like for example, the next aircraft to come out of the restoration hangar is going to be a Helldiver, the airplane flown in WWII by the biggest donor who made possible the building of the restoration hangar. Coincidence?


on the plus side, some of the curators have started taking apart some of the panels on the fuselage of the Ho-IX/Go-229, in preparation to a move from storage at the Garber facility to the restoration hangar at Udvar-Hazy- so maybe we will see that aircraft on the waitlist in the near future.
 

Pelzig

CLEARANCE: Secret
Joined
Oct 24, 2008
Messages
443
Reaction score
2
What I may not understand is why NASM wouldn't farm out restoration of the Kitsuka to Japan. Given the historical importance of the Kitsuka to Japanese aviation history, I bet they would have no problems finding a Japanese company or group to restore it and cutting a deal for display before returning it to the U.S. I mean, look what the replica Me 262 guys did. They went to the U.S. Navy and said, hey, we want to build replicas and would like to use your Me 262B-1a as the template in exchange for completely restoring it before handing it back over. The USN didn't have any qualms over that deal.
 

Jemiba

CLEARANCE: Above Top Secret
Staff member
Top Contributor
Senior Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2006
Messages
8,022
Reaction score
212
Hikoki1946 said:
What I may not understand is why NASM wouldn't farm out restoration of the Kitsuka to Japan.
Indeed, could have been a cheaper solution and worked well for the already mentioned Do 335. But maybe
political provisions have changed ("not restorated here").
 

windswords

CLEARANCE: Secret
Joined
May 20, 2009
Messages
311
Reaction score
15
If I had Bill Gates's money I would pay for the restoration of both the HO-229 and J7W1 Shinden. Then I would take them to Germany and Japan for a few months to display them before returning them to the US. Someday when both of these are restored I will visit the Air & Space museum again. If the Kikka is also on display that will be a great bonus!
 

ninjrk

CLEARANCE: Restricted
Joined
Apr 10, 2008
Messages
35
Reaction score
1
I wonder if it has to do with NASM's very exacting specifications when it comes to restoration. I was volunteering at the kalamazoo Air Zoo when they got the XP-55 and the standards and expectations were extremely exacting including little things like only handling internal structural pieces is such a way that the pencil scrawled notations from the 1940's engineers did not get smudged where they remained. With an aircraft of this history there might be a lot of people who want to do it but probably vanishingly few who would be trusted not to damage it or harm it.
 

blackkite

Don't laugh, don't cry, don't even curse, but.....
Joined
May 31, 2007
Messages
6,050
Reaction score
406
windswords said:
If I had Bill Gates's money I would pay for the restoration of both the HO-229 and J7W1 Shinden. Then I would take them to Germany and Japan for a few months to display them before returning them to the US. Someday when both of these are restored I will visit the Air & Space museum again. If the Kikka is also on display that will be a great bonus!
Yes we hope Shinden restration any way.
 

hesham

CLEARANCE: Above Top Secret
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
24,252
Reaction score
1,053
From Messerschmitt Me.262,Warbird Rech,

here is a comparison between Kikka and Karyu.
 

Attachments

blackkite

Don't laugh, don't cry, don't even curse, but.....
Joined
May 31, 2007
Messages
6,050
Reaction score
406
Excellent find!!! Thanks a lot. :D

"Parts that experts concluded to be of the jet engine Ne-230 that was developed by the Imperial Japanese Army for the prototype of the Karyu jet fighter found in the premises of International Christian University(ICU, not Tokyo university) in Mitaka, western Tokyo."

There was Nakajima aircraft research institute(Fugaku engine development,etc) in the premises of ICU.
 

Attachments

sgeorges4

I really should change my personal text
Joined
Oct 8, 2017
Messages
483
Reaction score
50
already post here but "voila"

https://www.reddit.com/r/Warthunder/comments/7fh0eo/ki201_prototype_remains_discovered/
 

Artie Bob

CLEARANCE: Confidential
Joined
Jan 6, 2008
Messages
161
Reaction score
9
Unless things have changed, the US NASM policy and resulting execution in restoring aircraft has been somewhat more demanding and complex than many other museums. Displaying the aircraft is somewhat secondary to making certain that the aircraft is returned to the condition of when it was built as an icon or perhaps a better term might be a "time capsule" of the technology incorporated in that aircraft. The restored aircraft in essentially all respects could be flown and all systems, materials and components, as much as possible are functional duplicates of the original. Insuring that concept is expensive and perhaps difficult to monitor in a remote location. The Do 335 situation was perhaps unique in some respects relative to it's restoration.

Best respects,

ArtieBob
 

sgeorges4

I really should change my personal text
Joined
Oct 8, 2017
Messages
483
Reaction score
50
what's that under the wing?

http://homesonthenet.info/asninfo-nakajima-j9n1-k-kikka.html
 

sgeorges4

I really should change my personal text
Joined
Oct 8, 2017
Messages
483
Reaction score
50
Did someone has a original drawing of the weapon arrangement on the fighters variant?
thank!
 

iverson

CLEARANCE: Secret
Joined
Sep 24, 2009
Messages
235
Reaction score
7
sgeorges4 said:
what's that under the wing?

http://homesonthenet.info/asninfo-nakajima-j9n1-k-kikka.html
I visited Silver Hill some year back. As far as I can recall, the thing with the small opening at the front is a faked up engine nacelle that someone added to the airframe at some point after the originals were lost and before it came into the Smithsonian's collection.
 

blackkite

Don't laugh, don't cry, don't even curse, but.....
Joined
May 31, 2007
Messages
6,050
Reaction score
406
It's great. Thank you very much.
 

blackkite

Don't laugh, don't cry, don't even curse, but.....
Joined
May 31, 2007
Messages
6,050
Reaction score
406
Ki-201 "Karyu" was planned as the first jet of the Japanese Army. This aircraft, like the Navy Kikka, refers to the Messerschmitt Me262 fighter aircraft of allied Germany. Therefore, the basic shape of this unit is very similar to the Me 262, such as the fuselage cross section of the triangle, the wing suspension method of the twin-engine engine.

However, the Karyu is one size larger compared with Me 262 on a scale, and Kikka is small oppositely. Kikka of the Navy does not equip any cannon from the planning stage (from the second prototype will be equipped with a fighter type and double-seat reconnaissance aircraft type), armed taking into account only anti-ship special attacks compared to the only bomb, The army Karyu was an air defense fighter to be tasked with intercepting boeing B-29 bomber of the United States army by four cannon sat on the only, and also serves as an assault aircraft to mission the raid of allied ships and ground troops in bombs and ta-bullet, It has been positioned as a combat assault aircraft.

Therefore, this machine is the first and last as a pure jet fighter that the Japanese army planned. Nakajima was in charge of the aircraft design, and the aircraft and engine were completed in 1945 and 20 th of the Showa era. Mass production was scheduled to start at the 21st production arsenal, and the first prototype was scheduled to produce 18 aircraft.

There are two types of engines, Hitachi Aircraft and Ishikawajima Aircraft Manufacturing Co., Ltd. were in charge, but they were not completed by the end of the war. In June 2015, a stainless steel jet engine believed to be a prototype was discovered on the International Christian University (ICU) campus, the site of nakajima airplane Mitaka Research Institute, and an investigation showed that the engine was scheduled to be mounted on a Karyu.

It was found that the possibility of ne-230" parts was high.

Karyu
Planned value (Ishikawajima Ne 130 equipment type)
Model applications: Special air defense fighters / combat assault aircraft
Design: Nakajima
Format: Low Wing
Crew: 1 (pilot)
Length: 11.50 m
Width: 13.70 m
Height: 4.05 m
Wing area: 25.00 m2
Weight: 7000 kg
Power: Ne 130 stationary thrust 908 kg ×2
Maximum speed: 852 km/h
Practical climb limit: 12,000 m
Range: 980 km

Armed: ho 5 20mm cannon × 2 (each 200 rounds mounted) Ho 155-II 30mm cannon (each 120 rounds mounted) × 2 500 kg bomb × 1 to 800 kg bomb × 1

 

Attachments

Last edited:

ninjrk

CLEARANCE: Restricted
Joined
Apr 10, 2008
Messages
35
Reaction score
1
From my next book "Fighters of the Dying Sun"
Oh heck yeah! I enjoy your books anyways but covering these (especially the Ki-201) makes me happy. Just tell me when and where to send money. . .

Matt
 

JFC Fuller

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Joined
Apr 22, 2012
Messages
3,220
Reaction score
99
The high velocity cannon armament of the Ki-201 Karyu seems more sensible than the 4 x MK-108 cannon of the Me-262. If the Ki-201 Karyu was intended as an interceptor were there plans to pressurise the cockpit as was done with the Ki-87 and Ki-94?
 

Justo Miranda

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Joined
Dec 2, 2007
Messages
3,509
Reaction score
173
From my next book "Fighters of the Dying Sun"
Oh heck yeah! I enjoy your books anyways but covering these (especially the Ki-201) makes me happy. Just tell me when and where to send money. . .

Matt
Summer of 2020
The high velocity cannon armament of the Ki-201 Karyu seems more sensible than the 4 x MK-108 cannon of the Me-262. If the Ki-201 Karyu was intended as an interceptor were there plans to pressurise the cockpit as was done with the Ki-87 and Ki-94?
All-weather interceptor with 2x30 mm Type 5 and 2x20 mm Type 99 cannons, guided by the TaChi-3 ground radar by means of one TaKi-15 airborne IFF transponder with 150 km range.
 

Attachments

blackkite

Don't laugh, don't cry, don't even curse, but.....
Joined
May 31, 2007
Messages
6,050
Reaction score
406
Hi! Karyu's engine Ishikawajima-Shibaura turbine Ne-130 jet engine.
ne-130.jpgWW2 JAPANESE JET ENGINE LIST.jpg
 

blackkite

Don't laugh, don't cry, don't even curse, but.....
Joined
May 31, 2007
Messages
6,050
Reaction score
406
You did it Justo-san!!
Sharp and correct drawings especially Kikka early studies.:cool:
 
Top