McDD/Northrop/BAe ASTOVL/MRF/JAST/JSF studies

[Matej]

Yes, they are patent drawings. I just added some gray and blue for better look.

 

[Triton]

Yes, they are patent drawings. I just added some gray and blue for better look.

I wasn't aware that they were your pictures, Matej. My apologies.

 

[Matej]

They are not "mine", they are patent drawings. I just modified them a bit to look little better on my website. I do not think it adds a copyright.

 

[Triton]

They are not "mine", they are patent drawings. I just modified them a bit to look little better on my website. I do not think it adds a copyright.

Aerospaceweb.org incorrectly credits the picture to the "JSF Program Office, 2010." I updated the references to point to your website, Matej. I appreciate the time and effort you put into your website.

 

[flateric]

MDC/BAe ASTOVL WT model

 

[Sferrin]

MDC/BAe ASTOVL WT model

Looks more like the LM X-32.

 

[flateric]

check the logo at background and family-shaped nose
but yes, BAe/MDC ASTOVL looks very close to 160-190 iterations of Lockheed JAST
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,2392.msg20554.html#msg20554

 

[Deino]

MDC/BAe ASTOVL WT model

Looks more like the LM X-32.

Looks more like the inspiration for Chengdu's J-20 ! :

 

[flateric]

this one looks much more 'inspirational'
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,238.msg114317.html#msg114317

 

[hesham]

Is this a real McDonnell Dougals ASTOVL design ?,they said;


McDonnell Douglas - REN cactus project - lift plus lift/cruise (LLC)

http://www.airborn12.com/extras/fighters.html

 

[Matej]

It shows just an engine principle, aircraft silhouette is only generic.

 

[Triton]

Artist's impressions of McDonnell Douglas/BAe ASTOVL concepst. Tandem seating arrangement?

Source:
http://www.airborn12.com/extras/fighters.html

 

[Jemiba]

I think, both pictures show single seaters. Was there ever a serious requirement
for a two seater ?

 

[flateric]

for JAST/JSF???

 

[Matej]

Tandem seating arrangement?

Just deformed pictures.

 

[Stargazer]

The ASTOVL picture resized and enhanced:

 

[flateric]

wish I had it in hi-res...

 

[InvisibleDefender]

I think, both pictures show single seaters. Was there ever a serious requirement
for a two seater ?

It was discussed but dismissed very early. There are no artists concepts that I have ever seen which show a two seater.

 

[Triton]

Did we lose the link to From JAST to JSF: The Evolution of the Joint Strike Fighter by Ian Maddock when the JSF mega-topic was broken up into smaller topics by manufacturer? Or was the document taken down from the forum?

 

[overscan (PaulMM)]

The topic was merged.


The post is here:
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,238.msg130070.html#msg130070


The PDF is here:
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=238.0;attach=137096

 

[hesham]

Hi,

http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1996/1996%20-%201664.html

The drawing.

 

[shedofdread]

For some reason, I've always rather warmed to that design.
Part #7 interests me - I presume that's a door allowing air from the intake duct to flow over the wing roots thus promoting flow attachment in that region at high AoA (and maybe cleaner flow at the tail?)..? Anyone got more info on that feature?

 

[AeroFranz]

I believe the explanation is more simple, it might be an auxiliary door for inlet air for the main engine in VTOL mode, just like the ring of spring-loaded doors on a Harrier.

 

[shedofdread]

Ah! My mistake. You're right - I thought they looked rather like blow-in doors...

Part #7 is labeled differently in the two columns. I had just read the CTOL / CV column. I wonder then, to what does that refer? Hmmm...

 

[hesham]

Hi,


what was this BAe ASTOVL model ?.


http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1991/1991 - 0407.html

 

[Mike Pryce]

Its the BAe P.112:

www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,2863.msg96792.html

 

[lantinian]

Part #7 interests me - I presume that's a door allowing air from the intake duct to flow over the wing roots thus promoting flow attachment in that region at high AoA (and maybe cleaner flow at the tail?)..? Anyone got more info on that feature?

I believe the F-22 has exactly the same feature (inlet bleed-air door) with exactly the same purpose.

 

[hesham]

Thank you my dear Harrier.

 

[Sferrin]

Part #7 interests me - I presume that's a door allowing air from the intake duct to flow over the wing roots thus promoting flow attachment in that region at high AoA (and maybe cleaner flow at the tail?)..? Anyone got more info on that feature?

I believe the F-22 has exactly the same feature (inlet bleed-air door) with exactly the same purpose.

The early ones had little spoilers immediately aft of the upper inlet lip but those were deleted from aircraft 0028 on as I recall. The inlets further back, on top of the aircraft, are for the engines and serve the same purpose as the side inlets on the XF8U-3 Crusader.

 

[Triton]

McDonnell Douglas / British Aerospace / Northrop Grumman JSF model found on eBay.

Source:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/RARE-Joint-Strike-Fighter-JSF-McDonnell-Douglas-Northrup-Grumman-British-Aero-/140936094809?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item20d0722459

 

[Triton]

McDonnell Douglas / British Aerospace / Northrop Grumman JSF model found on eBay.

 

[Triton]

Winning bid was US $142.50.

 

[InvisibleDefender]

Winning bid was US $142.50.

Somebody got ripped off!

 

[Triton]

Winning bid was US $142.50.

Somebody got ripped off!

Really? Why do you say that?

 

[InvisibleDefender]

Winning bid was US $142.50.

Somebody got ripped off!

Really? Why do you say that?

Because its 1/144! I own a few original 1/48 models. I never ever saw a 1/144 model around.

 

[Triton]

It's a fake?

 

[InvisibleDefender]

It's a fake?

It looks right, but have you ever seen an aeronautical company make a 1/144 display model during a competition? I'm not suing that it is fake, but definitely odd.

 

[JFC Fuller]

The original concept was to use a gas-driven lift fan instead of the mechanically-driven one that Lockheed-Martin used. When that didn't work out, McDD went with a lift engine and that broke the terms of the competition and they were eliminatated. I'm told that the aero types in Fort Worth considered them a much more worthy and dangerous competitor than Boeing.

Does anybody know what actually happened to the gas driven fan configuration MDD was working on as part of the ASTOVL programme for ARPA? As I understand it MDD were actually contracted to build a demonstrator rig using a YF-120 and a lift-fan derived from the F110, was this project a technical failure or did it just fall by the wayside? The official story appears to be that the merging of ASTOVL with JAST introduced an affordability element that killed the viability of the gas driven fan concept- was this a product of its relative technological immaturity of the concept or of it simply being more expensive to procure?

 

[flateric]

Yes, they have built test rig - I've seen photos. Problem was, as it was written here many times, lower battle damage survivability of the system.

 

[Sundog]

Yes, they have built test rig - I've seen photos. Problem was, as it was written here many times, lover battle damage survivability of the system.

How would battle damage for that system be any different than battle damage for the shaft driven system? Or are you saying the drive shaft system takes up less volume, and as a result, is somewhat less susceptible to damage?

I was always thought the problem with the gas driven system is it's just not as efficient as a shaft driven system due to the duct losses being higher than the friction losses in the drive system? Also, I would think a shaft driven system would be more responsive.