Northrop Post-ATF concepts

elider

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The pic below is from a Northrop promotional handout at the 1991 Dayton air show. It is a screen shot so it isn't very clear(I can't find the original handout). I've identified them here:
#1 Top_ High Reliability Fighter
#2 Top Right_MRF-RFI also ALF
#3 Bottom Right_F-16 Derivative
#4 Center_AX(one version)
#5 Bottom Left_STOVL MRF
#6 Left_CAS-X

I've included other pics as well.
 

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CammNut

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I have the same or similar handout, and some pictures. The fighter photographs would appear to be dated 1994, and the configurarion corresponds to the "Low Cost Fighter" drawing on the handout, so that would place them around the time of MRF and CALF, and before JAST. Its relationship to the YF-23 is clear.

The AX and "special-purpose stealth" - a fan-in-wing special-operations transport - are scanned from the same handout, which was touting the capabilities of the then-new Northrop Advanced Technology and Design Center.
 

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elider

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Whew! Thank you CammNut for bailing me out. I hoped someone had the originals and would post them. Do you also have the overhead profile pic from the original handout? I find the wing-tip design to be interesting, but difficult to understand how it works. Anyway, Northrop must have seen little value in it since it disappeared from their future designs as far as I know. Thanks again.
 

CammNut

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I need to check my notes, but if I remember correctly Northrop patented a wing design that involved an all-moving tip-cum-aileron/elevon - I recall seeing a model at a show...
 

CammNut

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Found it! It is called the "outboard control wing". It is covered by US patent number 5156358, filed by Northrop in 1991. Basically it involves a fixed main wing with conventional leading- and trailing-edge devices, and an all-moving outboard surface (or wintip) that has its own leading- and trailing-edge flaps. The result is a wing with a double-crank leading edge, but a continuous trailing edge.

If I can work out how to extract jpegs from a pdf, I will post them.
 

Kadija_Man

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CammNut said:
I need to check my notes, but if I remember correctly Northrop patented a wing design that involved an all-moving tip-cum-aileron/elevon - I recall seeing a model at a show...
Did they? I know Gloster used a similar idea on several of their 1940s and 50s delta designs. However they dropped its use because of worries about its use at high speed.
 

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Cammnut, if you have higher res versions of those Northrop drawings (the ones on blue background) if you could post to me, I'll edit in Photoshop and repost with better quality.
 

Sundog

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Here's the Patent 5156358 Cammnut was referencing.

I thought the plane he was refering to was the Northrop Advanced Manned Concept shown in the design patent D365545

The fighter shown in the lower left, is different than their STOVL-MRF I remember, as that had a canard (I posted a pic of it in an older thread, but I don't remember which one). I believe it's this advanced STOVL MRF design based on the wind tunnel model shown above which had very strong pitch authority (According to the engineers who designed it when I spoke to them at the Dayton airshow back in the late 80's/early 90's). It's design patent is D356990.

The Northrop AX design is Design Patent D342717

BTW, if anyone has more info on the F-16 derivative, such as fuselage length (Was it a standard F-16 or F-16XL fuselage or a different length altogether?) I would definitely like to know for modeling purposes. ;D Mainly just because I think that is one of the all-time coolest wing designs ever shown on a fighter.
 

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The fighter at the top on the first picture looks to me like ND-102. And "Low Cost Fighter" posted by CammNut is cool. I just wonder, if it is related with the navalized version of the F-23.
 

tacitblue

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Sundog said:
From the thread Overscan just posted about the Northop Model shop, is that the Northrop MRF at the bottom middle that looks like the single engine F-23? I'm definitely going to have to get this issue! BTW Overscan, any glimpses of a navalized YF-23 in any of the pics? If so, reply in the proper thread so as not to go OT. :D

I see the large-scaled YF-23 Regional Bomber in those pics. And in the pics above, the artist concepts of the single engined fighter, that is clearly the SHARC.
 

sferrin

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That gray UCAV there center right is interesting. I've got a few pictures of that somewhere and I'd thought it wasn't anything more than an artist's generic concept.
 

Lampshade111

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You know, I think we would have been better off with a steathlier MRF/JAST/JSF design like that one at the bottom. I doubt you could develop a VTOL version however.
 

Sundog

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tacitblue said:
I see the large-scaled YF-23 Regional Bomber in those pics. And in the pics above, the artist concepts of the single engined fighter, that is clearly the SHARC.
Where do you see the SHARC, because I don't see it in that pic. I see what looks like the Northrop MRF proposal, but I don't see the SHARC anywhere. If you're talking about what's in the bottom center, the strakes aren't anywhere broad enough to be the SHARC and the nose isn't nearly tapered enough for the SHARC. Take a look at the pics at the beginning of the thread of the MRF. Not to mention, the SHARC, as shown at this link, wasn't a Northrop program.
 

tacitblue

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Sundog said:
Where do you see the SHARC, because I don't see it in that pic. I see what looks like the Northrop MRF proposal, but I don't see the SHARC anywhere. If you're talking about what's in the bottom center, the strakes aren't anywhere broad enough to be the SHARC and the nose isn't nearly tapered enough for the SHARC. Take a look at the pics at the beginning of the thread of the MRF. Not to mention, the SHARC, as shown at this link, wasn't a Northrop program.
The SHARC is in the pics/drawings above this photograph.
 

Matej

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1. Please don't quote everything what you are able to quote.

2. As Sundog said, the drawing at the beginning of the topic is not SHARC, it is Northrop's MRF study. SHARC is a pure NASA program of a (some characteristics of) subsonic attack plane, related much to the Grumman FAAV. It has nothing to do with the Northrop, nor that drawing. It is not a good idea to make conclusions only from visual resemblance.
 

GeorgeA

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Posting here to avoid dragging another thread off-topic, but I never realized until today that in the AMC patent, Wainfan and Mrdeza cite the Testors F-19 as prior art. ;D
 

CFE

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GeorgeA said:
Posting here to avoid dragging another thread off-topic, but I never realized until today that in the AMC patent, Wainfan and Mrdeza cite the Testors F-19 as prior art. ;D
Ironically enough, so did Lockheed in their pre-X-33 patent. The relationship there is even more tenuous.
 

flateric

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LCF from Langley photo archives (check for their recent updates!)


 

Ogami musashi

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Flateric's pics show the two models having the wing-fuselage section being not aligned in pitch...any direct lift/variable AOA wing study?
 

flateric

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Ogami musashi said:
any direct lift/variable AOA wing study?
no. it was inflatible nose section study afair
 

BAROBA

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There is some confusion here about a prgram from NASA called SHARC and a project from Northrop called LCF and nicknamed SharK.

From : http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,278.45/topicseen.html

SHARC aka Shark

As stated, SHARC is related to the YF-23. However, SHARC was an earlier design, and the YF-23 design was derived from it, though scaled-up and twin engined. Northrop design, Advanced Project (AP-2), begun August 1978, was for an advanced fighter to accompany Tacit Blue on missions. Late 70s/early 80s, Northrop RCS testing involved several different models of different designs - Hawk (ATB/AP-4/& 10), Manta, Whale (AP-1 / aka Shamu / Tacit Blue), and Shark (AP-2).

The name "Shark" sounds similar to the acronym SHARC, as tested by NASA Langley. However, Shark is the name Northrop personnel gave the design. Shark was a follow-on to the F-20 Tigershark. Shark/AP-2 was proposed to the USAF in 1978. Its more formal title was "Light Co-operative Fighter" or LCF. It was in the 17,000-lb class, powered by one GE F404 engine. Supersonic, but less than Mach 2.

In 1981, when the ATF program (Senior Sky) began, Northrop was in a good position to present the USAF with an excellent proposal. As reported in AW&ST, June 1, 1981 issue, (though not in exact words), stated thusly: "Northrop is building a fighter-size stealth aircraft that will fly soon; based a design proposed to the USAF." This was Shark, and is reported to have flown at Groom in late summer 1981. About the size of Have Blue, but heavier. Code name of program was Tacit ____

I hope this clears things out.

Cheers,

Rob
 

Mr London 24/7

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Members should be aware that the original source of this info is a notorious former DLR Poster called 'wolfbane', (who has not exactly been reliable):

http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,133.msg698.html#msg698
 

overscan

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Yep just to be clear the SHARC/Shark Northrop stuff is wild speculation.
 
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