Klemm Leichtflugzeugbau

[cluttonfred]

I stumbled across this history in English of Hanns Klemm, the man and his company, and thought others might be interested. It includes a number of prototypes and one-off designs as well as referencing some unbuilt designs that I have never heard of before.

History of Klemm Leichtflugzeugbau

Cheers,

Matthew

 

[Tophe]

Interesting point (thanks Mole fir the link): "During the war a very remarkable Klemm was built: two Klemm L 25’s were fitted together as a testbed for the Messerschmitt Bf-109Z. This Bf-109Z was a twin-fuselage fighter (2 Bf 109’s connected). The idea is basically the same as the Twin Mustang. The Bf-109Z has never been built, and it is not known if this is due to the Klemm testbed."
Without the well known picture though, and without more info (connected tails? 3-view?)

 

[Jemiba]

From E.Peter "Der Flugzeugschlepp von den Anfängen bis heute" (Aircraft towing, from the
beginnings until today), a photo of the mentioned Mistel combination, made up of a DFS 230
assault glider and a Klemm Kl 35:

 

[hesham]

From Jet & Prop 2/1999,


here is the Klemm Kl 25 with two personal pods,to carry the special agents to
enemy land secretly.

 

[Jemiba]

From what I know and read, the Kl 25 was never meant to be used on such
missions, but just as a testbed for the use of such pods, that actually would
have been used on the Ju 87, or maybe on other types, too, although I haven't
heard of them.

 

[hesham]

From Le Fana,

a strange patent to Klemm.

 

[riggerrob]

From what I know and read, the Kl 25 was never meant to be used on such
missions, but just as a testbed for the use of such pods, that actually would
have been used on the Ju 87, or maybe on other types, too, although I haven't
heard of them.

————————————————————————————-
Similar passenger pods were mocked-up on a Junkers 87 Stuka. Not sure if the Stuka flew with passenger pods.

The concept was revived for AV8 Harrier, but they looked more like fuel drop -tanks modified with plexiglas noses. They hung under the wing like regular drop tanks. Some one built mock-ups of Harrier passenger pods and displayed them at a trade show, but we never heard about them in service.
....... mind you, the sort of sneaky-peaky, special forces, covert, stealthy guys that are most likely to use those pods are quiet professionals who are the least likely to brag about them.

 

[Jemiba]

Yes, we had both here : https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,1476.0.html

In the case of the Ju 87, I cannot think of its use for covert operations, à la those, with the
Westland Lysander, as the Stuka wasn't really an STOL aircraft. May have been rather intended
as a light transport, I think.

 

[dan_inbox]

A people pod under a Harrier could have been useful to recover a downed pilot on land, if you have no helo around. Response time would actually be better than the helo.

Could serve also for casevac. The Stuka pods could do casevac too.
Of course it is better if you have the right purpose-built aircraft for it, but when you don't...

 

[cluttonfred]

The link in my original post in this thread is now dead, but the story of Hans Klemm and Klemm Leichtflugzeugbau is now available here (in German with integrated Google translate): https://hannsklemm.wordpress.com/

 

[hesham]

Amazing my dear Cluttenfred,

and here is an unknown Project.

 

[hesham]

Amazing my dear Cluttenfred,

and here is an unknown Project.

And maybe it was E37 ?.

 

[iverson]

Amazing my dear Cluttenfred,

and here is an unknown Project.

And maybe it was E37 ?.

It looks a bit like the Kl107, actually.

 

[Maveric]

Why E.37?

 

[richard B]

The pictures show , so far I remember (I am not at home now) a mockup of the Kl 105 ...

 

[hesham]

The pictures show , so far I remember (I am not at home now) a mockup of the Kl 105 ...

I guess only my dear Richard.

 

[richard B]

Your picture shows the Kl 105 V4

Here , the Kl 105 V1 D-EPQH with Zündapp engine :



Looking at the front fuselage , my memories could be right , but I am not sure 100% : I will check when at home , at the end of next month ...

 

[hesham]

OK my dear Richard.

 

[karel4]

Is the matriculation of this two-fuselage aircraft known? Any information ??

 

[VictorXL188]

As Richard correctly pointed out, the two mock ups are indeed of the Kl 105. Confirmation is that both pics were from the archive of Boblingen and they are identified as such on https://hannsklemm.wordpress.com/modelle-2/klemm-kl105/ where it states they were designed to test the visibility of the type one assumes prior to manufacture of the real thing.

 

[VictorXL188]

Is the matriculation of this two-fuselage aircraft known? Any information ??
View attachment 671158

If you look at reply #2 you will see the answer to your question

 

[Apophenia]

Is the matriculation of this two-fuselage aircraft known? Any information ??
View attachment 671158

If you look at reply #2 you will see the answer to your question

karel4's image doesn't definitively answer Tophe's question about connected tails. However, the photo does suggest standard horizontal tailplanes were retained.

 

[VictorXL188]

Is the matriculation of this two-fuselage aircraft known? Any information ??
View attachment 671158

If you look at reply #2 you will see the answer to your question

karel4's image doesn't definitively answer Tophe's question about connected tails. However, the photo does suggest standard horizontal tailplanes were retained.

True but my reply was to answer karel4's question.

 

[hesham]

Interesting point (thanks Mole fir the link): "During the war a very remarkable Klemm was built: two Klemm L 25’s were fitted together as a testbed for the Messerschmitt Bf-109Z. This Bf-109Z was a twin-fuselage fighter (2 Bf 109’s connected). The idea is basically the same as the Twin Mustang. The Bf-109Z has never been built, and it is not known if this is due to the Klemm testbed."
Without the well known picture though, and without more info (connected tails? 3-view?)

My dear Tophe,

also in my files,Klemm 35 was a tested project version for 109Z,as a Zwilling
aircraft ?!.

 

[riggerrob]

A people pod under a Harrier could have been useful to recover a downed pilot on land, if you have no helo around. Response time would actually be better than the helo.

Could serve also for casevac. The Stuka pods could do casevac too.
Of course it is better if you have the right purpose-built aircraft for it, but when you don't...

Similar passenger pods were mocked-up for AH-64 Apache attack helicopters.
When they needed to be used in anger (e.g. British Army fighting in Afghanistan) the fancy pods were not available, so they just sat soldiers on the stub wings and wrapped a seat-belt around them for a short flight (say 2 kilometers) to beyond rifle range (7.62 x 51mm NATO).
Israelis mocked up similar lash-ups/belt-ups for their Bell Huey Cobra and AH-64 attack helicopters. Keep in mind that Israelis are willing to devote tremendous resources to rescuing even a single wounded soldier from the battlefield.

 

[dan_inbox]

Keep in mind that Israelis are willing to devote tremendous resources to rescuing even a single wounded soldier from the battlefield.

With or without lashed-up belt.
F-4E pilot Yishai Aviram was rescued from Sidon area by an AH-1 Tsefa on October 16, 1986.
He was hiding on the side of a steep slope and jumped on the skid when the Tsefa hovered near him.

Air force magazine Bitaon ran an article on it, complete with a photo of Aviram re-enacting his escape on a crane-suspended AH-1.

 

[Dynoman]

Klemm licensed an American aircraft manufacturer to build and sale the Klemm sporting aircraft and trainers in the US in the late 1920s and early 1930s. Aeromarine Plane and Motor Co changed its name to Aeromarine Klemm and marketed the designs with Salmson and Aeromarine engines to flight schools and light aircraft pilots. US variations included floats initially developed by Vincent Burnelli.

 

[hesham]

Hi,

I can't ID the two aircraft,in the right and on the middle left /

Wer war eigentlich Hanns Klemm? - fliegermagazin

Was ist das Besondere an Klemm-Flugzeugen? Die Geschichte von Hanns Klemm und seinen Konstruktionen begann 1918 in Sindelfingen.

www.fliegermagazin.de

 

[Jemiba]

Hard to tell, but on the right, it may be the Daimler L15A, not sure if the glider or the motorized version. Judging what can be seen from the nose, I would lean to the latter.


The one on the left could be the Kl136 with a Bramo radial engine. The Kl132 could fit the look of this model somehow, too, but I couldn't find a photo of it with a cowling over the engine



Photos are from "Klemm-Flugzeuge" by Paul Zöller

 

[hesham]

Thank you my dear Jemiba,

and also I can't ID this one.

 

[richard B]

Hard to tell, but on the right, it may be the Daimler L15A, not sure if the glider or the motorized version. Judging what can be seen from the nose, I would lean to the latter.
View attachment 760318

The one on the left could be the Kl136 with a Bramo radial engine. The Kl132 could fit the look of this model somehow, too, but I couldn't find a photo of it with a cowling over the engine

View attachment 760319

Photos are from "Klemm-Flugzeuge" by Paul Zöller

Could be a Kl 31 or a Kl 32 too ?

 

[Jemiba]

...

and also I can't ID this one.

Hardly surprising, identifying this ghost is really difficult. As the model obviously is coloured, I'm not even sure, if the fin/rudder actually is square, or if just a balanced rudder has the same colour, as the decking of the fuselage, so not visible against the light background.
Could be a L20, L25, L26, L27, L30 ... all of them were build with a variety of engines, so different appearances.

 

[Stargazer]

Klemm licensed an American aircraft manufacturer to build and sale the Klemm sporting aircraft and trainers in the US in the late 1920s and early 1930s. Aeromarine Plane and Motor Co changed its name to Aeromarine Klemm and marketed the designs with Salmson and Aeromarine engines to flight schools and light aircraft pilots. US variations included floats initially developed by Vincent Burnelli.

Some documents from the Aeromarine Klemm area.

 

[Stargazer]

Aeromarine Klemm AKL-25 / AKL-25A:

 

[Stargazer]

Aeromarine Klemm AKL-26 / AKL-26A (Model 70 Trainer):

 

[Stargazer]

Aeromarine Klemm AKL-26B (Model 85 Flyer):

 

[Stargazer]

Aeromarine Klemm L-26X:

 

[Stargazer]

Uppercu-Burnelli Model B:

 

[richard B]

Second photo on the right don't show the Model B , but the AKL 26 (or 25?) used to try the floats with wheels of the Burnelli model B .
The wing of the model B is a Klemm one , but I am not sure than the model B had a Klemm fuselage...

 

[Dynoman]

Earliest of the Aeromarine AKL 26. Note the single cockpit bay with two seats. The wing skids were also visible with the pivoting wingtips and brakeless wire wheels in this early AKL design.