Hubble Space Telescope

TomS said:
Josh_TN said:
Isn't Hubble down to one working gyro? It seems unlikely to me it has enough life left in it to make a boost worth while.
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Three (of six originals). It can work with just two, with some limitations.

But at least some of the thinking here is that they might be able to do a servicing mission either in conjunction with a reboost or separately. The gyros have been replaced once and possibly could be replaced again.

OTOH, Crew Dragon isn't exactly the perfect platform for a servicing mission, so a lot of development money might be needed.
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i imagine having a docking mech on the third stage part and using it to connect whilst a dragon crew repairs it. and then discarding the third stage afterwards by dropping it into the atmosphere on the way down? its a possibility. but i would use a different platform. because even the Soyuz would work better. the dragon is just a bit small for the job. possible. but highly unlikely
 
I half wonder if trying the mission with Dream Chaser would be easier but would the crewed version even be available in the time frame required.
 
Would require quite a bit of additional hardware I suspect, possibly even something along the lines of an OTV or OMV.
 
Grey Havoc said:
www.space.com

DART asteroid crash seen by James Webb, Hubble space telescopes (photos)

"For the first time, Webb and Hubble have simultaneously captured imagery from the same target in the cosmos."
www.space.com www.space.com

www.spacedaily.com

New asteroid strike images show impact 'a lot bigger than expected'

Paris (AFP) Sept 29, 2022 - The James Webb and Hubble telescopes on Thursday revealed their first images of a spacecraft deliberately smashing into an asteroid, as astronomers indicated that the impact looks to have been much greater than expected.
www.spacedaily.com
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TomS said:
OTOH, Crew Dragon isn't exactly the perfect platform for a servicing mission, so a lot of development money might be needed.
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It took the Space Shuttle to do the original Hubble servicing missions, you are right to be sceptical about SpaceX's Crew Dragon being used for the mission TomS. When I first saw the article I could not believe it myself.
 
Flyaway said:
Isaacman suggesting that Dragon would dock with Hubble trunk first here.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1575637811981537282
View: https://twitter.com/truthful_ast/status/1575637811981537282


Polaris Dragon docked to Hubble
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https://twitter.com/x/status/1576310153053278208
View: https://twitter.com/rookisaacman/status/1576310153053278208


Looking good.. may want to flip Dragon 180 degrees though. Just a guess
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Would the Dragon capsule have to be modified to dock with Hubble Flyaway? :confused:
 
Yes, Dragon doesn't have a docking adapter that fits Hubble.
Replacing the gyros would be difficult without a stable platform for the astronaut (Hubble repairs were usually done with an astronaut attached to the end of the robotic arm).
 
Hobbes said:
Yes, Dragon doesn't have a docking adapter that fits Hubble.
Replacing the gyros would be difficult without a stable platform for the astronaut (Hubble repairs were usually done with an astronaut attached to the end of the robotic arm).
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Thanks Hobbes, I also wonder how much such a docking adapter is going to cost to develop for just one mission to boost Hubble?
 
The adapter isn't that complicated (IIRC it's based on the grapple mechanism on the end of the Canadarm, so it's reasonably standard).
 
Hobbes said:
The adapter isn't that complicated (IIRC it's based on the grapple mechanism on the end of the Canadarm, so it's reasonably standard).
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That is a lot better than I initially thought. Using technology that already exists is a lot better than designing and building new tech and quite possibly cheaper as well.
 
My memory was incorrect. Hubble has a docking adapter based on the NASA Docking System. This is generally used to dock manned spacecraft together. Hubble received the Soft-Capture Mechanism that's part of this system.

Dragon carries a common Berthing System docking adapter in its nose, so it can't use that. But the NDS is standard hardware, so putting an adapter in Dragon's trunk shouldn't be too difficult.
 
Hobbes said:
My memory was incorrect. Hubble has a docking adapter based on the NASA Docking System. This is generally used to dock manned spacecraft together. Hubble received the Soft-Capture Mechanism that's part of this system.

Dragon carries a common Berthing System docking adapter in its nose, so it can't use that. But the NDS is standard hardware, so putting an adapter in Dragon's trunk shouldn't be too difficult.
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Anyway they’ll probably be using the thrusters in the nose to reboost Hubble.

This video in general is worth a look as regards this servicing mission.

View: https://youtu.be/N6j8owi2xAE
 
Flyaway said:
Hobbes said:
My memory was incorrect. Hubble has a docking adapter based on the NASA Docking System. This is generally used to dock manned spacecraft together. Hubble received the Soft-Capture Mechanism that's part of this system.

Dragon carries a common Berthing System docking adapter in its nose, so it can't use that. But the NDS is standard hardware, so putting an adapter in Dragon's trunk shouldn't be too difficult.
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Anyway they’ll probably be using the thrusters in the nose to reboost Hubble.

This video in general is worth a look as regards this servicing mission.

View: https://youtu.be/N6j8owi2xAE
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Thanks for posting the video Flyaway, It helps to clear up any remaining doubt's that I had about the mission.
 
https://twitter.com/x/status/1576961303998238721
View: https://twitter.com/jeff_foust/status/1576961303998238721


Isaacman: if we can boost Hubble above altitude of Starlink constellation and “put some enhancements” on it, could operate for 20 more years. [Depends on what those enhancements are.]
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https://twitter.com/x/status/1576962193752576002
View: https://twitter.com/jeff_foust/status/1576962193752576002


Isaacman reiterates that any Hubble servicing could be done “at little or no cost” to taxpayers thanks to commercial space funding. “That’s all that should matter.” [It’ll be an interesting government procurement process, to be certain.]
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The plan to boost Hubble and put new enhancements onto the telescope to make it last beyond 20 years is a good idea. Would it be possible to use the HST and the Webb telescope together as a team much like what happened to Spitzer when it was operational.
 
FighterJock said:
The plan to boost Hubble and put new enhancements onto the telescope to make it last beyond 20 years is a good idea. Would it be possible to use the HST and the Webb telescope together as a team much like what happened to Spitzer when it was operational.
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Yes, and this is already happening. The DART impact was imaged by both, for instance.
 
Here is an idea. Rump cargo dragon with no capsule-modded to have a skeletal tail capture ring slide to the side such that crew dragon can link with nose flap out of the way. Thin suit man rises straight up out of nose of offset Crew Dragon past cargo dragon flank-gets tools, then floats up farther to Hubble doors-exchanges equipment...proceedure reversed. Cargo dragon service module remains at Hubble.
 
publiusr said:
Here is an idea. Rump cargo dragon with no capsule-modded to have a skeletal tail capture ring slide to the side such that crew dragon can link with nose flap out of the way. Thin suit man rises straight up out of nose of offset Crew Dragon past cargo dragon flank-gets tools, then floats up farther to Hubble doors-exchanges equipment...proceedure reversed. Cargo dragon service module remains at Hubble.
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I like that idea publiusr. Now if only SpaceX could do something similar to that then I would be very happy. :cool:
 
What are the prospects of upgrading and moving Hubble to a more advantageous position?
 
Foo Fighter said:
What are the prospects of upgrading and moving Hubble to a more advantageous position?
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like a Heliocentric orbit? (which i HIGHLY doubt) i would probably just extend the orbit slightly past where it is now. so there is even less atmospheric disturbance. after all. it is in a low-earth orbit so there is a small amount.
 
Foo Fighter said:
What are the prospects of upgrading and moving Hubble to a more advantageous position?
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For a major in-situ upgrade, not that great, given the current available resources and likely funding in the near future. :(
 
Falcon Heavy might launch an all propellant craft to move Hubble to ISS. NASA might go for the droplet risk-end of life Hubble mounted on ISS. MOL at last :)
 
You can't attach Hubble to the ISS. Vibrations from the ISS would ruin every observation. You could put Hubble in an orbit that keeps it near the ISS, but the debris environment at that altitude is worse than at Hubble's current location.
 
Hobbes said:
You can't attach Hubble to the ISS. Vibrations from the ISS would ruin every observation. You could put Hubble in an orbit that keeps it near the ISS, but the debris environment at that altitude is worse than at Hubble's current location.
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precisely. so the only two options are to De-Orbit the scientific masterpiece.... or get an extension mission for maintenance. and repositioning. on a farther orbit away from earth.
 
Hobbes said:
You can't attach Hubble to the ISS. Vibrations from the ISS would ruin every observation. You could put Hubble in an orbit that keeps it near the ISS, but the debris environment at that altitude is worse than at Hubble's current location.
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And it's a 23-degree (!) plane-change maneuver to get there. That's massive. I don't think even a Falcon Heavy could launch enough fuel to do it.

Conspirator said:
precisely. so the only two options are to De-Orbit the scientific masterpiece.... or get an extension mission for maintenance. and repositioning. on a farther orbit away from earth.
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Hubble does not need to be put in a significantly different orbit. It does great science where it is, it just needs a reboost to stay where it was designed to work. And ideally new gyros. But even just a reboost would likely extend its life by many years.
 
TomS said:
Hobbes said:
You can't attach Hubble to the ISS. Vibrations from the ISS would ruin every observation. You could put Hubble in an orbit that keeps it near the ISS, but the debris environment at that altitude is worse than at Hubble's current location.
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And it's a 23-degree (!) plane-change maneuver to get there. That's massive. I don't think even a Falcon Heavy could launch enough fuel to do it.

Conspirator said:
precisely. so the only two options are to De-Orbit the scientific masterpiece.... or get an extension mission for maintenance. and repositioning. on a farther orbit away from earth.
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Hubble does not need to be put in a significantly different orbit. It does great science where it is, it just needs a reboost to stay where it was designed to work. And ideally new gyros. But even just a reboost would likely extend its life by many years.
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it does not need to be too significant. maybe a hundred miles or less. just want to make the most of hubble.
 
Conspirator said:
it does not need to be too significant. maybe a hundred miles or less. just want to make the most of hubble.
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It's lost 20 miles in the last 13 years (from 350 in 2008 to 330 now). Reboosting it back up closer to 380 miles (its original altitude) would allow it to easily outlast its sensors. But even that might be outside the available delta-v of a Crew Dragon capsule. Especially if you want to also reserve enough delta-v for a controlled deorbit.
 
An idea just hit me:

A Hoberman sphere type device that could expand out of the trunk? This could be expanded and allow the Crew Dragon to turn around and re-dock nose first.

I would say “make Buran 2” but Scott and Byeman would tear my throat out ;)

Once the Hoberman thing expands, a tightly packed balloon is inserted out of the capsule by hand…the sphere a cage to keep it in place.
 
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https://twitter.com/x/status/1582836919418818561
View: https://twitter.com/free_space/status/1582836919418818561


NASA names an all-Goddard team to study the @spacex @PolarisProgram pitch to reboost Hubble.
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Hi Irene - thanks very much for following up on this. We can now share the confirmed list of NASA team members, though the team may request or bring in additional support as technical questions arise:

Barbara Grofic, program manager, Astrophysics Project Division, NASA Goddard (NASA lead)
Patrick L. Crouse, Hubble project manager, NASA Goddard
Brian J. Roberts, robotic technologist, Satellite Servicing Projects Division, NASA Goddard
Jennifer J. Wiseman, Hubble project scientist, NASA Goddard
David N. Haskins, Hubble mission operations manager, NASA Goddard
Jackie Townsend, program manager, Astrophysics Strategic Missions Program, NASA Goddard

NASA informed ESA about the study and will update them as it progresses. The team may request technical expertise from ESA as well.
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https://twitter.com/x/status/1582848316173213697
View: https://twitter.com/free_space/status/1582848316173213697


Correction from@nasa PAO : Jackie Townsend’s updated title is Deputy Project Manager for the Roman Space Telescope,
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Hubble Inspects A Pair of Space Oddities

This image from the NASA/ESA Hubble Space Telescope shows two of the galaxies in the galactic triplet Arp 248 — also known as Wild's Triplet — which lies around 200 million light-years from Earth in the constellation Virgo. The two large spiral galaxies visible in this image — which flank a smaller, unrelated background spiral galaxy — seem to be connected by a luminous bridge. This elongated stream of stars and interstellar dust is known as a tidal tail, and it was formed by the mutual gravitational attraction of the two foreground galaxies.
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NASA is looking beyond just Space X when it comes to re-boosting the telescope’s orbit.

NASA is seeking concepts from industry on how they would reboost the orbit of the Hubble Space Telescope, a sign that the agency is looking beyond SpaceX for any mission to extend the orbiting observatory’s life.

NASA published a request for information (RFI) Dec. 22 asking industry how they would demonstrate commercial satellite servicing capabilities by raising the orbit of Hubble. The agency said it is looking for technical information about how a company would carry out the mission, the risks involved and the likelihood of success.

NASA emphasized in the RFI that it had no plans to procure a mission to reboost Hubble. “Partner(s) would be expected to participate and undertake this mission on a no-exchange-of-funds basis,” the document stated, with companies responsible for the cost for the mission.
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spacenews.com

NASA requests information on Hubble reboost options - SpaceNews

NASA is seeking concepts from industry on how they would reboost the orbit of the Hubble Space Telescope, a sign that the agency is looking beyond SpaceX.
spacenews.com spacenews.com
 

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