• Hi Guest! Forum rules have been updated. All users please read here.

Hawker Siddeley P.1154

GTX

All hail the God of Frustration!!!
Senior Member
Joined
Apr 15, 2006
Messages
2,711
Reaction score
75
Website
beyondthesprues.com
Interesting. Is there a good reference for the development and ultimately cancellation of the P.1154?
 

AeroFranz

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
May 4, 2008
Messages
2,174
Reaction score
44
Am i reading this correctly? The 2 engines have combined rotating nozzles? :eek:
Must be pretty lossy...


This must rank very high among aerospace oddities. Thanks a lot for posting.
 

harrier

BAe P.1216 book: harrier.org.uk/P1216.htm
Senior Member
Joined
Dec 21, 2006
Messages
1,017
Reaction score
60
AeroFranz said:
Am i reading this correctly? The 2 engines have combined rotating nozzles? :eek:
Must be pretty lossy...


This must rank very high among aerospace oddities. Thanks a lot for posting.

They are 'handed' nozzles. One engine supplies the port front and starboard rear nozzles, and the other is vice versa. See extra image attached.
 

Attachments

Kadija_Man

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Jan 26, 2011
Messages
1,989
Reaction score
57
Harrier said:
AeroFranz said:
Am i reading this correctly? The 2 engines have combined rotating nozzles? :eek:
Must be pretty lossy...


This must rank very high among aerospace oddities. Thanks a lot for posting.

They are 'handed' nozzles. One engine supplies the port front and starboard rear nozzles, and the other is vice versa. See extra image attached.
Interesting. How does that help in an engine-out scenario? Do you also have a 3 view of the stacked engine proposal? I have another alternative which I was sent by Barrington Bond sometime ago of twin pegasus with them placed back to back, with six nozzles (the two engines share the common central ones). It had a large dorsal intake to feed the rear engine.
 

AeroFranz

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
May 4, 2008
Messages
2,174
Reaction score
44
They are 'handed' nozzles. One engine supplies the port front and starboard rear nozzles, and the other is vice versa. See extra image attached.



Oh, I see - still very odd, but not as lossy. Thanks for the clarification!
 

Arjen

It's turtles all the way down
Senior Member
Joined
Nov 6, 2010
Messages
2,477
Reaction score
187
Abraham Gubler said:
Found this image on the inside cover of "Harrier: The Biography" by Jonathan Glancey. Image credit is courtesy of Phillip Jarrett. Book is OK, image is awesome, my scan is mediocre.
Another attempt at cleaning the image
 

Attachments

Dsadow

CLEARANCE: Restricted
Joined
Apr 3, 2008
Messages
26
Reaction score
1
Hi, Like the trhee views you guys have found. Now, tell me, Did the ever think about putting a " Bubble " type or raised canopy on a varient of the P.1154?
 

hesham

CLEARANCE: Above Top Secret
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
24,883
Reaction score
1,672
Hi,


here is a Hawker P.1154 in details.


Самолеты вертикального взлета и посадки (1966)
 

Attachments

blackkite

Don't laugh, don't cry, don't even curse, but.....
Joined
May 31, 2007
Messages
6,466
Reaction score
1,240
Archibald said:
Thorvic has made a splendid model of the P.1134.

the P.1150 was the first step to the unlucky P.1154. In fact the P.1150 was not powerful enough for the NATO NBMR.3 of 1961, so 2 evolutions followed.
the first was the the P.1154 (which used the same lift system as the Harrier, with PCB for supersonic flight), the second the P.1155. both were tendered for the NBMR.3...

The P.1155 was a backup for the P.1154, very similar but using lift-jets. This was much less practical than the P.1154, so the backup was... abandoned.

After that, the P.1154 was started for both the RAF and RN before beeing cancelled in February 1965, along the HS-681 transport...
Hi! P.1150.

http://www.harrier.org.uk/history/projects.htm
 

Attachments

Vahe Demirjian

I really should change my personal text
Joined
Mar 1, 2013
Messages
440
Reaction score
143
The thread ought to be merged with the thread "Hawker Siddeley P.1154" because the P.1154 project has been well-documented in the literature on British jet fighters of the post-WW2 period as well as books on VTOL jet fighters.
 

FighterJock

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Joined
Oct 29, 2007
Messages
1,133
Reaction score
63
Nice find uk 75, I always liked the P1154 and it is one of my favourite what if fighters, it always amazes me why the RAF finally went for the subsonic P1127 instead of the P1154,
 

Grey Havoc

The path not taken.
Senior Member
Joined
Oct 9, 2009
Messages
9,708
Reaction score
503
Pennywise, pound foolish (at best). A good description of Her Majesty's Treasury...
 
  • Like
Reactions: zen

Wyvern

CLEARANCE: Restricted
Joined
Jan 25, 2020
Messages
35
Reaction score
29
Does anyone have any documents or images of the P.1155?
 

CNH

CLEARANCE: Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Dec 5, 2010
Messages
301
Reaction score
165
"Pennywise, pound foolish (at best). A good description of Her Majesty's Treasury... "

But what would we have gained if it had gone into production?
 

Grey Havoc

The path not taken.
Senior Member
Joined
Oct 9, 2009
Messages
9,708
Reaction score
503
"Pennywise, pound foolish (at best). A good description of Her Majesty's Treasury... "

But what would we have gained if it had gone into production?
A significantly stronger British aerospace industry for one thing.
 
  • Like
Reactions: CNH

zen

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Jul 15, 2007
Messages
1,168
Reaction score
153
"Pennywise, pound foolish (at best). A good description of Her Majesty's Treasury... "

But what would we have gained if it had gone into production?
Keep the RN out of it.
 

blackkite

Don't laugh, don't cry, don't even curse, but.....
Joined
May 31, 2007
Messages
6,466
Reaction score
1,240
"A wind tunnel model of the RAF's single seat variant of the supersonic Hawker Siddeley P.1154 Harrier. This is also on display at Brooklands Museum."
View attachment 626106
 
Last edited:

blackkite

Don't laugh, don't cry, don't even curse, but.....
Joined
May 31, 2007
Messages
6,466
Reaction score
1,240
Hi! Sorry following model seems to be a single seater with bicycle type undercarriage. So it's a P.1154 for RAF dated 4.11.63.(Brooklands Museum)
 

Attachments

Last edited:

uk 75

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Sep 27, 2006
Messages
1,597
Reaction score
230
The P1154 has been covered in so many books and articles. However, there is still no decent general arrangement drawing of the last version for the RAF before cancellation. This well known photo shows it.
The final version of the P1154RAF at cancellation is this model above, all I was asking for was a ga drawing of it.
The ones posted above have already appeared in other threads which cover development of the RAF and RN 1154. Please dont re post them here.

The wind tunnel model is pretty much the last version. The one posted after looks like a modern kit of some kind.
 

Thorvic

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2006
Messages
602
Reaction score
14
"A wind tunnel model of the RAF's single seat variant of the supersonic Hawker Siddeley P.1154 Harrier. This is also on display at Brooklands Museum."
View attachment 626106
I'm not sure that is an 1154, the fwd nozzles appear to be stepped and the pylon into the wheel fairing on the wing remind me a of a later proposal
 

Hood

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Sep 6, 2006
Messages
1,455
Reaction score
401
I'm not sure that is an 1154, the fwd nozzles appear to be stepped and the pylon into the wheel fairing on the wing remind me a of a later proposal
The undercarriage nacelle/pylon looks reminiscent of the later P.1214 to P.1216 studies, the tail fin too looks different from the P.1154 in having the ram-air intake at the root.
But it could have been a P.1154 model repurposed for later research.
Be good to see the labeling of the exhibit, but one thing for sure, a lot of the helpers at Brooklands know their Kingston projects off by heart.
 

blackkite

Don't laugh, don't cry, don't even curse, but.....
Joined
May 31, 2007
Messages
6,466
Reaction score
1,240
This wind tunnel test model has tricycle landing gear. So this design was for the RN?
Tricycle undercarriage VTOL fighter design for the RAF ever existed?
I feel this design looks like wind tunnel test model. Wing plan form is different?
 

Attachments

Last edited:

nuuumannn

I really should change my personal text
Joined
Oct 22, 2011
Messages
27
Reaction score
80
"A wind tunnel model of the RAF's single seat variant of the supersonic Hawker Siddeley P.1154 Harrier. This is also on display at Brooklands Museum."
Nice to see one of my images getting traction here. Interesting that you guys think it might be a more advanced project than the P.1154 - at the time I captioned it, that hadn't occurred to me, so the mistake is all mine, not Brooklands' or Kingston staff's. So based on what y'all have suggested, I did a bit of looking through Tony Buttler's British Secret Projects, Jet Bombers Since 1949 (Midland, 2003) and found an illustration that resembles that model more closely. It appears to be the HS.1179L single-seat V/STOL project of mid 1968. There was also a two-seater with the same designation, the HS.1179M.

Here 'tis again, only correctly captioned this time.
 

Attachments

Last edited:

nuuumannn

I really should change my personal text
Joined
Oct 22, 2011
Messages
27
Reaction score
80
Following on from that post, I can confirm that the following is, in fact a P.1154 (it has it written on the side) and it is located in a display case opposite where the model above is at Brooklands.

The BS.100 engine prototype at Yeovilton for interest's sake.
 

Attachments

uk 75

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Sep 27, 2006
Messages
1,597
Reaction score
230
Well that was all very interesting but still no decent ga drawing of RAF 1154 can Brooklands search
 

blackkite

Don't laugh, don't cry, don't even curse, but.....
Joined
May 31, 2007
Messages
6,466
Reaction score
1,240
Next I will study RAF version.;)
 

uk 75

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Sep 27, 2006
Messages
1,597
Reaction score
230
Following on from that post, I can confirm that the following is, in fact a P.1154 (it has it written on the side) and it is located in a display case opposite where the model above is at Brooklands.

The BS.100 engine prototype at Yeovilton for interest's sake.
Thanks for the image of the model P1154 I compare the two
 

Attachments

blackkite

Don't laugh, don't cry, don't even curse, but.....
Joined
May 31, 2007
Messages
6,466
Reaction score
1,240
British super beauty!!
There are some differences between #73 two images. Air intake shape, canory and small air intakes located shoulder and before vertical tail stabilizer.
Is this drawing not enough for RAF final version?
 

Attachments

Last edited:

uk 75

CLEARANCE: Top Secret
Senior Member
Joined
Sep 27, 2006
Messages
1,597
Reaction score
230
Is this what you are after, Ralph?
Thanks this is the closest to the production version. In Michael Pryce's article which I dont have to hand there is a ga of the two seat trainer version which shows the cockpit glazing.
 

overscan

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Dec 27, 2005
Messages
11,713
Reaction score
1,434
The latest issue of Aeroplane (March 2020) has several Hawker articles including one by Chris Gibson on P.1154, with a nice profile by Chris Sandham-Bailey (inkworm on the forum).
 
Top