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Dassault Rafale NEWS ONLY

helmutkohl

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Greece may buy 6 more Rafales

and a Whatif photoshop because we all like whatifs

hmm my ranking of French beauties goes

Rafale single seat > Mirage 2000 twin seat > Mirage 2000 single seat > Rafale twin seat
Ehuv0hBWAAI-2HC.jpg
 

TomcatViP

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Notice that >=120M a piece is now aknowledged to be the official price of the Rafale (here we've got 133M) in contrary to what is way too often quoted on internet.

The camo is stunningly beautiful.
 

Archibald

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It would be nice if it could be 40 or 400 instead of a paltry 4 - since the F-35 is now charging ahead for 3000 airframes...
 

Deltafan

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It would be nice if it could be 40 or 400 instead of a paltry 4 - since the F-35 is now charging ahead for 3000 airframes...
It's only a batch of 4 among the indian order of 36.

And the internal market of France (between 200 and 225 Rafale, maybe) is not the internal market of USA (2456 F-35, at least for now).

For the Rafale export, there are 102 news and 12 used. There are 84 optional too. There are too possibilities in other markets.
At the end, more than 400 cannot be ruled out.
 
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TomcatViP

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The final four of 18 Rafale fighters needed to complete the IAF’s No 17 ‘Golden Arrow’ Squadron at Ambala AFS arrived in India on 21 April. Delivery of 18 additional aircraft to equip the IAF’s second Rafale is expected to begin within the next few weeks. (Via Embassy of India in France)

The final four of 18 Rafale fighters needed to complete the IAF’s No 17 ‘Golden Arrow’ Squadron at Ambala AFS arrived in India on 21 April. Delivery of 18 additional aircraft to equip the IAF’s second Rafale [squadron] is expected to begin within the next few weeks. (Via Embassy of India in France)


* I am wondering what explains the sudden apparent increase in output delivery (3+4 in April and some (unspecified) expected in May)?!
 
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Deltafan

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Maybe 30 more Rafale for Egypt ordered tomorrow. Maybe...

 

Archibald

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Nice to see the Rafale selling so well. It took the best part of two decades to happen, but now it's under way.
 

helmutkohl

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Nice to see the Rafale selling so well. It took the best part of two decades to happen, but now it's under way.

I remember for a decade, there were all these articles about why the Rafale isnt selling and has no exports
and would end up being like the Viggen.

in the end it got quite a few customers.

that said, I wonder how well if it sold had it been a lighter single engined fighter.
rather than compete with Eurofighter, it would compete with Gripen. France always made really popular single engined aircraft

i imagine a single engined rafale would look like this

novi-avion-8f6c4f47-30b1-43da-adac-9c6e4cac1be-resize-750.jpg
 

TomcatViP

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A single engined Rafale exists already: it's called the Gripen E. Before that we had the 2K, gone with wind.
I don't think that Rafale is suddenly successful. I think it's more its market that has adapted to the lack of alternatives (French alternatives mainly). The cost equation also have been greatly improved. The cost is now stable, public and realistically dealt with through original financial offers backed from the French Gov. It's obviously a bit borderline when it comes to potential risks of litigation in democratic countries but effective in all other cases (and better than throwing national assets to hide the lack of competitive pricing).
The greatest risk however is the same one France had to face in the early 90's when Irak was freed from Saddam... 4.5B$ @85% makes for a lot money ontop of other things if it goes awry.
 

Deltafan

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Nice to see the Rafale selling so well. It took the best part of two decades to happen, but now it's under way.

I remember for a decade, there were all these articles about why the Rafale isnt selling and has no exports
and would end up being like the Viggen.

in the end it got quite a few customers.

that said, I wonder how well if it sold had it been a lighter single engined fighter.
rather than compete with Eurofighter, it would compete with Gripen. France always made really popular single engined aircraft

i imagine a single engined rafale would look like this

novi-avion-8f6c4f47-30b1-43da-adac-9c6e4cac1be-resize-750.jpg
At the beginning of the Rafale programme it was a one engined (Rapace program, 1979)



Otherwise, yes, the last studies of the Yugoslavian Novi Avion (your drawing), with the help of Dassault aviation, before the war in Yugoslavia, showed what could have been a (more little) one engined Rafale :
 

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Archibald

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You learn something every day ! Thanks a lot for sharing that. Blew my mind.
Well, one thing is sure: there is still a LOT to be learned and discovered about the 4000-ACX-Rafale transition era; from 1977 to 1985.
I was aware of the Novi Avion, Mirage 4000, early 4000-Rafale hybrid with the different, "not-Mirage-anymore-intakes" (ACT-92 !) ; but RAPACE, now that's whole new to me.
When you think about it... Typhoon immediate ancestor - BAe P.110 - also had a little brother called P.106 that is loosely related to early Grippen history.
Well, that's RAPACE is exactly the same thing: RAFALE's very own P.106. How about that.

It also makes the single-engine Mirage 2000 more relevant to the 4000-ACX-Rafale transition era...

It never dawned on me that Dassault could have studied single-engine Rafale variants that were not Novi Avion (LMAO).
 
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Deltafan

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You learn something every day ! Thanks a lot for sharing that. Blew my mind.
Well, one thing is sure: there is still a LOT to be learned and discovered about the 4000-ACX-Rafale transition era; from 1977 to 1985.
I was aware of the Novi Avion, Mirage 4000, early 4000-Rafale hybrid with the different, "not-Mirage-anymore-intakes"; but RAPACE, now that's whole new to me.
When you think about it... Typhoon immediate ancestor - BAe P.110 - also had a little brother called P.106 that is loosely related to early Grippen history.
Well, that's RAPACE is exactly the same thing: RAFALE's very own P.106. How about that.

It also makes the single-engine Mirage 2000 more relevant to the 4000-ACX-Rafale transition era...

It never dawned on me that Dassault could have studied single-engine Rafale variants that were not Novi Avion (LMAO).
At that time, the successor to the M53 was to be the 12T thrust DEXTRE engine (old reading of an issue of Air & Cosmos or Aviation Magazine from this period). But in the end, the choice turned towards a twin-jet engine and the M88 of 7.5T of thrust (even if with DEXTRE technology).
 

Archibald

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Funny how that echoes the 50's... and SNECMA atempt at a "Super Atar" also with 12 tons of thrust. To power early sketches of the Mirage IV - called Mirage IVC, they were single engine and thus somewhat a French F-105. Soon they become two-engines heavy fighter (Phantom like) before freezing out at Vigilante light-bomber level: the Mirage IVA was born...
 

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This last order is huge in therm of significance. I hope that it will open a new era for Dassault: that of an absolute serenity and a return to the normal.

Obviously, having a more politically correct nation for customer would have been way better, but let's admit that Egypt, with or without Sissi needs those planes today.

Sadly however, India might have taken a punch in the face.

I am wondering if all the plane ordered are F3R or is there some options left for future upgraded verdion.
 

TomcatViP

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So far there is no intentions to augment production capacities. Hence it's all the program that would move somehow on the right.
At 2 airframe produced per month, the expected delay will be 15 months. It remains to be seen what service will be impacted.

Edit:
Delivery should start in 2024, meaning that production slots would have to be made available in 2022. Wasn't that the supposed production start of the 12 airframes for the AdlAE to replace the ones bound to Greece?

Edit2:
Production of replacement airframe for France should have occcured starting in 2023 (delivered by 2025). Now delivery should start in 2026 at best (2024 and 2025 assumed as fully devoted to the Egyptian orders).
Obviously there is some variation to be considered since at this stage we don't know the exact contracted delivery end-date for Egypt or if anything firm was mandated for the France re-order.
 
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eagle

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If / when Dassault wins Switzerland, production capacity could be a real problem. That would be 30-40 jets to be delivered from 2025 to 2030...
 

TomcatViP

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It's 9 airframe in more or less 30 days, 4 time the average production output. I wonder if that is made of the early production airframe used for training in South West of France.
Has anyone registered the s/n?
 

Deltafan

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AFAIK, there were 7 indian Rafale used for training in France.
 

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