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BAC TSR2

A Tentative Fleet Plan

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I'll point out that SOR-183 for the F-111 originally specified an 800 mile combat radius (400 at Low-Level) and an unrefueled ferry range of 3300 miles.
 

red admiral

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It was a lot of aeroplane to deliver not very many iron HE bombs around a target, if it could find it, and if it wasn't shot down along the way.
 

uk 75

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If Buccaneer S2 had appeared earlier rather than the disappointing Buccaneer S1 the RAF might have been less critical. After all they grew to like it once they had it.
Tornado started like as MRCA ("Must re-furbish Canberra again"). Apart from range the Fin was TSR2.
 

Zoo Tycoon

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If a more co-operative spirit had existed between the RAF and RN then there would have been the trust in the S2 and then maybe the longer range TFR capable Buccaneer Tactical Strike & Rec mk 3 for both services ...... together with a P1121 or P1116 based fighter to boot.

The fact the seniors in both services were quite happy to frequently knock chunks out of each other budget, sometimes for little more than devilment, was probably more important than any technical deficiencies.
 

Pirate Pete

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If a more co-operative spirit had existed between the RAF and RN then there would have been the trust in the S2 and then maybe the longer range TFR capable Buccaneer Tactical Strike & Rec mk 3 for both services ...... together with a P1121 or P1116 based fighter to boot.

The fact the seniors in both services were quite happy to frequently knock chunks out of each other budget, sometimes for little more than devilment, was probably more important than any technical deficiencies.
It may be a simplistic viewpoint, but I think the 'worst' of the "knocking chunks out of each other" may have been precipitated by the infamous 1957 Defence Review.
The R.A.F. lost quite a few aircraft projects, The Army lost out badly with the end of National Service (I thing I am right in saying that they suffered the most of the three services from this), whilst the Navy came out relatively unscathed, thanks in part by Mountbatten's combination of political manoeuvring and insistence that the Naval Staff took a more pragmatic approach to their projects.
Mountbatten is frequently quoted as making statements about just how many Buccaneers could be bought for a TSR-2, so the R.A.F. had little option but retaliate, bearing in mind the writing was on the wall as far as their losing the Nuclear Deterrent role. The Airforce Staff were far more politically astute, and they very carefully never made a 'frontal' attack on the Navy, but managed to put forward better arguments in Committees, whereas the Navy in effect (and this REALLY IS over simplification) kept saying "well, we are the Navy so it should be so-and-so". The Navy case became even worse with the side-lining of Mountbatten and his subsequent retirement.
 
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zen

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RAF had been throwing attacks at the NA.39 Buccaneers stating it was cheaper to develop the Scimitar.
Obvious flaw being the RAF not opting for Scimitar variants for ground attack and MRI at that time. Which could have given much needed cost savings and breathing room to decide on NMBR.3.....
 

robunos

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Regarding TSR.2 vs. Buccaneer, it's always been my understanding that the main thrust of the Navy's argument was 'Yes, you can buy six Buccaneers for the price of one TSR.2, but in order for those Buccaneers to do what the TSR.2 can do, you also need to buy an aircraft carrier and it's escorts and support ships, in other words MOAR SHIPS!, which is what we really want . . .'

cheers,
Robin.
 

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