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AMSA Program & B-1 Bomber projects

Michel Van

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zillions thanks pometablava

so its the Boeing 2707-200
but that plane is far more complex and expensive as the Rockwell B-1 proposal
like the needs of C-5 Airtanker for refuel
and even if B-2707 can attack Soviet union with mach 2.7 in high altitude
there MiG-25 Mach 3.2 to intercept the SAC Bomber
 

Pyrrhic victory

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B-1A prototype in 1981 with theoretical load outs for the upcoming B-1B program.

Which one of these is not like the other?
 

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Apollo Leader

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I remember reading in Aerofax's book on the B-1 that there was a Navy version that Rockwell had proposed that was supposed to be capable of carrying a bunch of AIM-54's.
 

frank

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Sometime in the early '80s I saw in AW & ST there was a B-1C proposed for ADC, a long range interceptor, that would use the F-14's radar & have Phoenixes in the weapons bay(s).


Firefly 2 said:
Phoenix???? ???
 

KJ_Lesnick

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Frank,

Sometime in the early '80s I saw in AW & ST there was a B-1C proposed for ADC, a long range interceptor, that would use the F-14's radar & have Phoenixes in the weapons bay(s).

That would have been impressive
 

quellish

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Pyrrhic victory said:
B-1A prototype in 1981 with theoretical load outs for the upcoming B-1B program.

Which one of these is not like the other?

Seeing a B-1B outfitted with ACMs on the external hardpoints... now that's impressive. I wish they would bring the hardpoints back!
 

TomS

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quellish said:
Seeing a B-1B outfitted with ACMs on the external hardpoints... now that's impressive. I wish they would bring the hardpoints back!

They have, sort of. The B-1s with Sniper pods are carrying them on one of the external hardpoints. Other than that, though, it's not like the B-1 is short on carrying capacity using the internal bays.
 

SOC

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Hardpoints were deleted to reduce the number of warheads they could be accounted for under START (I was on an inspection team at a B-1B base once, we got to learn all about the START stuff on the airframe so we knew what the Russians would be looking for-forward bay bulkhead had to be locked in the center position as well, to disallow CSRL/ALCM carriage). Since they've been de-nuked, I don't see why they couldn't bring them back. START's about to expire anyway.
 

Dynoman

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AMPSS - Advanced Manned Precision Strike System
Baseline Configuration and Parametric Study

http://www.dtic.mil/cgi-bin/GetTRDoc?AD=AD365474&Location=U2&doc=GetTRDoc.pdf

Courtesy of DTIC
 

flateric

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THE B-1B BOMBER: A PROGRAM HISTORY
by
Kiran R. Magiawala
Ph.D. (Aero), California Institute of
Technology (1978)
M.S.(Aero), California Institute of
Technology (1974)
M.Tech.(Aero), Indian Institute of
Technology, Kanpur, India (1973)
B.E.(Mech), Gujarat University,
Ahmedabad, India (1971)
SUBMITTED TO THE DEPARTMENT OF
AERONAUTICS AND ASTRONAUTICS IN
PARTIAL FULFILLMENT OF THE
REQUIREMENTS FOR THE DEGREE OF
MASTER OF SCIENCE IN TECHNOLOGY AND POLICY at the MASSACHUSETTS INSTITUTE OF TECHNOLOGY
February 1988

http://dspace.mit.edu/bitstream/handle/1721.1/34036/19283648.pdf?sequence=1
 

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Colonial-Marine

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SOC said:
Hardpoints were deleted to reduce the number of warheads they could be accounted for under START (I was on an inspection team at a B-1B base once, we got to learn all about the START stuff on the airframe so we knew what the Russians would be looking for-forward bay bulkhead had to be locked in the center position as well, to disallow CSRL/ALCM carriage). Since they've been de-nuked, I don't see why they couldn't bring them back. START's about to expire anyway.

As much as I love the B-1 from an aesthetics and design point of view, perhaps they don't have enough airframe hours left on them to make such an upgrade worth it when you consider the extra weight it would be carrying. Despite the B-1Bs critics, they have sure seen plenty of use over the past 8 years.
 

AeroFranz

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Grigoriy,

http://dspace.mit.edu/bitstream/handle/1721.1/34036/19283648.pdf?sequence=1
can you open the link? it tells me the file is damaged :(
 

flateric

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yep, without problems - just have checked it
 

quellish

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SOC said:
Hardpoints were deleted to reduce the number of warheads they could be accounted for under START (I was on an inspection team at a B-1B base once, we got to learn all about the START stuff on the airframe so we knew what the Russians would be looking for-forward bay bulkhead had to be locked in the center position as well, to disallow CSRL/ALCM carriage). Since they've been de-nuked, I don't see why they couldn't bring them back. START's about to expire anyway.

A B-1B fully loaded with CBU-105 (WCMD/SFW) in both the internal bay and external hardpoints would be a very formidable way to stop an armored invasion.
 

Steve Pace

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Has anyone seen a B-1B with ordnance attached to external hard points? I for one have not. And I wrote a WARBIRD HISTORY book on it.
 

Triton

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aim9xray

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XB-70 Guy said:
Has anyone seen a B-1B with ordnance attached to external hard points? I for one have not. And I wrote a WARBIRD HISTORY book on it.
Well, page 91 of your book has a photo of 85-0068 with the external AGM-129 semi-conformal pylons on those hardpoints.
 

quellish

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aim9xray said:
XB-70 Guy said:
Has anyone seen a B-1B with ordnance attached to external hard points? I for one have not. And I wrote a WARBIRD HISTORY book on it.
Well, page 91 of your book has a photo of 85-0068 with the external AGM-129 semi-conformal pylons on those hardpoints.
I have. One book on the B-1 had an extensive set of photos, a quick search in Amazon did not find it though. I'll look around for it, though I won't be able to scan them any time soon.
 

aim9xray

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That would probably be Don Logan's "B-1B, SAC's Last Bomber" published by Schiffer. Page 51 has three color in-flight photos and there is text across four pages describing the AGM-129 Advanced Cruise Missile integration effort.
 

quellish

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aim9xray said:
That would probably be Don Logan's "B-1B, SAC's Last Bomber" published by Schiffer. Page 51 has three color in-flight photos and there is text across four pages describing the AGM-129 Advanced Cruise Missile integration effort.

I believe you are correct, though my quick look through the big box of fun didn't turn the book up where it should be.
 

Stargazer2006

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XB-70 Guy said:
Has anyone seen a B-1B with ordnance attached to external hard points? I for one have not. And I wrote a WARBIRD HISTORY book on it.

:eek: Are you trying to tell us that the Warbird Tech books are not DEFINITIVE? :-\ That somehow there can be omissions? That is an awfully disappointing piece of news... ;D ;)
 

Steve Pace

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Apparently mine was not because Specialty Press hasn't sold it for years. It was published in 1998 as BOEING NORTH AMERICAN B-1 LANCER, Volume 19.
 

Steve Pace

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aim9xray said:
XB-70 Guy said:
Has anyone seen a B-1B with ordnance attached to external hard points? I for one have not. And I wrote a WARBIRD HISTORY book on it.
Well, page 91 of your book has a photo of 85-0068 with the external AGM-129 semi-conformal pylons on those hardpoints.

That was only a test - never put into any operational mission(s).
 

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I think I got this picture from the Key Publishing forums a few years back.
 

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Skybolt

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Most secret projects-related docs suddenly appearing on places like DTIC derive from FOIA request submitted with considerable effort and expense by researchers. One example is the AMPSS GD doc linked in a previous post of this topic. DTIC administration at times puts immediately online FOIA-released docs, spoiling the work done by researchers, that naturally hope to use the info they gather to publish books, articles, etc. This has already been said in other cases like this, but it is worth repeating: please, if you find a FOIA-released doc suddenly published on public access sites, keep it for yourselves, at least for a while. Or, if you are a Senior Member and want to share your discovery, post it in the Private Discussions section. This is not a try at secluding information, only a sign of courtesy to fellow researchers.... Hope you all understand.
 

Triton

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Rockwell B-1 bomber concept artwork found on eBay. Note how the aft section under the tail looks different than the production version.

URL: http://cgi.ebay.com/ROCKWELL-B-1-NUCLEAR-BOMBER-ORIGINAL-CONCEPT-ART_W0QQitemZ110512333045QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item19bb0c60f5

Seller's description
B-1 BOMBER CONCEPT ART from ROCKWELL N.AMERICAN AVIATION.

Original art work produced at North American Rockwell to promote the first B-1 Nuclear Bomber. This is a aircraft that was conceived for the cold war and now just has to do a low buzz job to scare the H&*% out of any insurgents. If you love fast sleek aircraft that packs a powerful punch, this is a historic work of original one of a kind art that you can be proud to display and preserve for future generations. 22"x18"

Added from “Found on Ebay” thread
 

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RanulfC

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flateric said:
Also found at NTRS -timeframe (1966) suggest that it was LAMP-AMP-AMPSS program related. My previous thoughts of TFX were re-thought:)
Too late and unusual for TFX. Beat me if I'm wrong.
Flateric:

Interesting pivot-wing design, any chance you have the report number you got it from?
(I'm ALWAYS interested in seeing what ideas there are out there for pivot-wings :)

Randy
 

flateric

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now it's clear that it's not AMSA-related

http://hdl.handle.net/2060/19660030316
Title: Stability and control characteristics at Mach numbers of 1.41 and 2.20 of a multimission STOL airplane configuration with a variable-skew wing
Author(s): Foster, G. V.
Abstract: Stability and control characteristics at Mach numbers of 1.41 and 2.20 of multimission STOL AIRPLANE configuration with variable-skew wing
NASA Center: Langley Research Center
Publication Date: May 1, 1963
Document Source: CASI
Online Source: View PDF File
Document ID: 19660030316
Accession ID: 66N39606
Publication Information: Number of Pages = 69
Report Number: NASA-TM-X-812
Price Code: A04
Keywords: ANGLE OF ATTACK; BODY-WING CONFIGURATIONS; MACH NUMBER; SHORT TAKEOFF AIRCRAFT; STABILITY; SUPERSONIC SPEED; WINGS; BODY-WING COMBINATION; STABILITY AND CONTROL; STOL AIRCRAFT; SUPERSONIC SPEED;

http://hdl.handle.net/2060/19720065639
Title: Aerodynamic characteristics at Mach numbers from 1.70 to 2.86 of a STOL model with a variable-skew wing
Author(s): Spearman, M. L.; Finch, V. M.
Abstract: No Abstract Available
NASA Center: Langley Research Center
Publication Date: Jan 1, 1964
Document Source: CASI
Online Source: View PDF File
Document ID: 19720065639
Accession ID: 72N73511
Publication Information: Number of Pages = 21
Report Number: L-3451; NASA-TM-X-903
Price Code: A03
Keywords: LATERAL STABILITY; LONGITUDINAL STABILITY; SHORT TAKEOFF AIRCRAFT; VARIABLE GEOMETRY STRUCTURES; SUPERSONIC FLOW;
 

uk 75

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For all enthusiasts or just those interested in the AMSA/B1 saga I can recommend the new Tony Buttler book on US Bomber secret projects with its wonderful photos of the various manufacturer's models. The book also explains that much material on the various proposals at the early stages of the
evolution of the project has been destroyed.

Unfortunately the book does not add any more info on the twin podded engine version pictured in one of the drawings posted earlier on the site.
 

uk 75

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Sorry I should have given the ref, I meant the second pic in flateric's contrbution of
12 September 2008. I have seen this drawing in some old 60s magazines and it must
have been a USAF initial idea rather than a manufactuer's. Hence the weird combination
of F-111 and B-52.
 

fightingirish

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From Flug-Revue May 1972, page 74 & 75
 

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Abraham Gubler

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Here are some colour pictures of the B-1B fitted with ACM pylons discussed earlier in this thread.
 

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