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AMSA Program & B-1 Bomber projects

overscan

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AMSA was said to stand for "America's Most Studied Aircraft" due to the length of time it took to get to flying hardware.

The USAF announcement of the airframe and engine contractors for the B-1 manned strategic bomber programme was scheduled for 28 May. Airframe finalists are Boeing, North American Rockwell, and General Dynamics, and power plant competitors are General Electric and Pratt & Whitney.
Flying Review International, July 1970

I'm sure I've seen a Lockheed AMSA design, and Doug Richardson's B-1 book has 3 AMSA designs that may be the Rockwell evolution, but what were Boeing and General Dynamics losing finalist submissions?
 

TinWing

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Jay Miller's Lockheed Skunkworks history has drawings of 1968 and 1969 design studies.
 

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fightingirish

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Pictures here at Gatial Jozef site:
http://www.planespictures.com/index.php?c=6&t=1
 

overscan

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Matej's page has a pic of a General Dynamics AMSA. So that leaves Boeing...
 

frank

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Wasn't Boeing's based on their 2707 SST?
 

overscan

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Got hold of the source for the General Dynamics AMSA pic.

Interesting parallels to their VG FX fighter project.
 

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Antonio

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Paul,

you can find this GD AMSA design at page 7, "The B-1 Bomber. Aero Series 35. William G. Holder. Aero (TAB Books Inc). ISBN 0-8306-8616-9"
 

overscan

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Indeed! Thats where I scanned it from :)
 

flateric

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Also found at NTRS -timeframe (1966) suggest that it was LAMP-AMP-AMPSS program related. My previous thoughts of TFX were re-thought:)
Too late and unusual for TFX. Beat me if I'm wrong.
 

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uk 75

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Any chance of a three view drawing of the General Dynamics podded B1/AMSA proposal. I like this bird.

UK 75
 

uk 75

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Super Cereal

Love those GD B1s. Thanks v much.

Do you have similar for the North American pre-B1 podded designs or similar? Sorry for being greedy but I really love these early designs.

UK 75
 

Orionblamblam

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uk 75 said:
Do you have similar for the North American pre-B1 podded designs or similar?
The one in the lower left is GD. The one in the middle is Boeing. All the others are North American. The one in upper right with many views is described in further detail here:
http://www.up-ship.com/Book/preview.htm

It's been many months since I've worked on my Bomber Projects drawings.... until a few days ago. I've ahd a *lot* of projects going at once, and I've had to focus on the ones that actually make money. But I've started drawing again. Finished up a Boeing AMSA design last night. Several more AMSA designs to go.
 

uk 75

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Was leafing through some old mags at a plane show a few weeks ago and found a small drawing of what I assume to be an AMSA design. I did not buy the mag as it was part of a whole set of mags, but the picture was basically of a plane with an F111 type nose, a B52 mid fuselage and wings with podded engines a la B52, though it appeared to have a swing wing root. The tail was mid way between a B52H and an F111. I have seen a similar drawing in an ad from the 1968 period for a US parts manufacturer.

I assume this was purely an artist's fantasy of what AMSA might turn out as, or did it reflect a real designer's initial ideas.

UK 75
 

Skybolt

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Seems the AW&ST artist impression of the LAMP (1964)
 

Antonio

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Skybolt,

What kind if project is the LAMP?

Thanks in advance

Antonio
 

overscan

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Low Altitude Manned Penetrator
 

uk 75

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Low Altitude Manned Penetrator (LAMP)

I am intrigued as I thought I knew all the 60s stuff. Presumably this was a project that filled the time between the cancellation of the B70/RS70 and the AMSA. Any pics/models/stuff?

Thanks again

UK 75
 

Skybolt

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There were half a dozen bomber (and similar) projects between the RS-70 (not XB-70) definitive cancellation and the AMSA.
 

KJ_Lesnick

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The B-1A was capable of similar performance as the XB-70 in terms of range and high-altitude speed right?

KJ Lesnick
 

sferrin

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KJ_Lesnick said:
The B-1A was capable of similar performance as the XB-70 in terms of range and high-altitude speed right?

KJ Lesnick
Not even close. The XB-70 was a Mach 3 / 72,000 ft cruise aircraft where the B-1A's max speed (flown anyway) was Mach 2.22 and it supposedly had a 60,000 foot ceiling.
 

Skybolt

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And completely different mode of use: B-70 high-high-high, B-1A high-low-high, with a long low. The LAMP was similar, but the high phases would have been subsonic, and the low transonic. In the B-1A the incoming high would have been supersonic and the low transonic.
 

Avimimus

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sferrin said:
KJ_Lesnick said:
The B-1A was capable of similar performance as the XB-70 in terms of range and high-altitude speed right?

KJ Lesnick
Not even close. The XB-70 was a Mach 3 / 72,000 ft cruise aircraft where the B-1A's max speed (flown anyway) was Mach 2.22 and it supposedly had a 60,000 foot ceiling.
I think thats pretty close... at least so far as most SAMs are concerned.
 

flateric

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'Look, dude, I believe it will fly, swear by my new tie!'
 

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Orionblamblam

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Ah, '70's fashion. Glad I was too young to truly appreciate the horror of lime green polyesther leaisure suits....

Not to drag this too far off topic, but what the hell...

http://teamsugar.com/group/46813/blog/771943

http://www.plaidstallions.com/fashion.html

http://www.plaidstallions.com/lingerie/index.html

http://www.aperfectworld.org/page_one.html

http://retrocrush.buzznet.com/archive2004/catalog/

It was like Communists on acid were deciding what was fashionable. Shudder.
 

flateric

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Unidentified AMSA concepts from Bill Holder's B-1 BOMBER (AERO SERIES VOL.35/TAB BOOKS, 1988) - second, revised edition.
Well, I'm pretty sure that Scott has 'shazamm' stuff ready...seems that last one is depicted in his B-1 collection (North American D436-21?)
 

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Just call me Ray

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I hope I'm not the only one who recognizes the configuration of the first one in the above post:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_XB-51
 

uk 75

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I am intrigued by the podded designs. The line drawing does not match the
artist's impression. Does anyone know anything more about these designs?

UK 75
 

Michel Van

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i read in Wiki or worst saw it on History Channel

story about that some of SST projects of Boeing, MDD, Lockheed.
end up as B-1 proposals

is this true or just a urban Legend ?
 

Antonio

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The Boeing B-2707 was considered as an alternative to the B-1 project.
 

Michel Van

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pometablava said:
The Boeing B-2707 was considered as an alternative to the B-1 project.
Wow
the Boeing 2707-200 Model ?
but they have to make heavy modification on 2707 to be a Bomber
 

lark

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Is there someone who can show us a drawing of the
unbuilt fixed wing variant of the B-1 ?
Thanks in advance.
 

overscan

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http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,411.0/highlight,b-1+fixed+wing.html

;D ;D ;D
 

Antonio

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but they have to make heavy modification on 2707 to be a Bomber
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,2887.0/highlight,air%20progress.html

Look at reply number 2

also...

http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,1282.0/highlight,sst%20usaf.html

From Air Progress June 1967:
J. S. Butz, Jr., aviation engineer and technical writer said the SST would make a better bomber than the AF's proposed AMSA. Only slight modifications would be needed. Wings and fuselage have to be beefed up. Fuselage could be slimmed down, improving range and speed without sacrificing payload. Unrefueled range is around 8000 mi, with inflight refueling it could easely haul a 75000 lb payload over an 8000 mi range. The SST flying high will be easy to "see" by enemy air defense, but hitting it won't be as easy flying at Mach 2.7. Consensus among AF and industry experts is that the SST no doubt could be converted into a bomber. All in all, say some experts, it's far better - even if it costs more in dollars - to design a new bomber specifically for that role than to adapt a plane intended for another purpose
 

lark

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Thanks Pome.. I'm gettin' older ::)
 

lark

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And Overscan of course... (it's not my day)
 
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