It was part of the fairing jettison system.-For a start, never realized Progress flew with Soyuz escape systems, except deactivated. I presume as a way of standardizing launch vehicles between Progress and Soyuz ?
It was part of the fairing jettison system.-For a start, never realized Progress flew with Soyuz escape systems, except deactivated. I presume as a way of standardizing launch vehicles between Progress and Soyuz ?
-Wow those dummies got one hell of a ride ! Never knew that. Very clever way of testing.
-For a start, never realized Progress flew with Soyuz escape systems, except deactivated. I presume as a way of standardizing launch vehicles between Progress and Soyuz ?
-And so - once 40 km high they discarded the escape shroud, then fired the ejector seat with the dummy ?
-Su-27 and MiG-29 pilots could brag "that K-36 ejection seat you see in my cockpit, it was tested on a Soyuz rocket." Wild !
not useable for anything.Might a system like that allow a heavier human-rated craft? The occupant could make his way down into the craft--leaving the tower and lower stage to be jettisoned together.
Too violent?
The escape tower would not need to be large enough to tear the whole spacecraft free.
-For a start, never realized Progress flew with Soyuz escape systems, except deactivated.
I cannot show the working drawings for reasons of confidentiality—only a fragment of the poster.Do you have any photographs of these test seats installed in the Progress payload fairings? No doubt those payload-fairings would've been heavily modified to accommodate those ejection-seats.
Shouldn't the rear ODU blocks be completely white? In many photos of Buran, you can see that they are black at the bottom due to the soot formed during the separation of the Block-A, and originally were completely white (except for the black piece on the fuselage)
Yes, you're right - this isn't the final version, we're still working on it. We'll fix it.Shouldn't the rear ODU blocks be completely white? In many photos of Buran, you can see that they are black at the bottom due to the soot formed during the separation of the Block-A, and originally were completely white (except for the black piece on the fuselage)
View attachment 800167View attachment 800169View attachment 800166
Yes, you're right - this isn't the final version, we're still working on it. We'll fix it.
It carries individually targetable warheads in its cargo bay, which it releases in orbit, and does not return to the atmosphere itself, see http://www.buran.ru/htm/spirit.htmWhere are the wings and the tail-fin?
They are not "like", they are literally those modules.Like the wingless Buran station modules then.
Sorry for not responding, couldn't find anything substantial!Hi, its been quite a while but im getting back into the topic. Do you happen to have this info anywhere? Thank you very much for the past info youve given btw
Are there any plans to make a model of the laser system for Buran or the space-to-space missile launcher you mentioned? And a couple more questions: what was the actual Delta-V of an empty Buran with a full fuel load, and how much fuel did the additional tanks hold?It carries individually targetable warheads in its cargo bay, which it releases in orbit, and does not return to the atmosphere itself, see http://www.buran.ru/htm/spirit.htm
We plan to complete the Bolid model together with the impact blocks inside the cargo compartment. We do not have detailed data on the Buran's onboard defense system.Are there any plans to make a model of the laser system for Buran or the space-to-space missile launcher you mentioned? And a couple more questions: what was the actual Delta-V of an empty Buran with a full fuel load, and how much fuel did the additional tanks hold?
All the info in the Internet is very different of course, so you're the only reliable source)
Wow, it's actually crazy, especially compared to other questionable sources saying that the Burans Delta-V without any payload and with 7.5t fuel was around 350m/s and 550m/s with 14t fuel and 30t layload (without any specific orbit inclination of course)Accordingly, with this mass and a fuel reserve of 28 tons, the characteristic velocity will be 1,599.3 m/s.
You must use speculative sources for other vehicles because you are wrong on the shuttle.And while the Space Shuttle had a working orbit altitude range of up to 400 miles (643 km), the Buran had a working orbit range of 200 (reference), 300, 500, and 1000 km.
Unlike other speculative sources, I rely on the Buran documentation.
After your statement that the Space Shuttle could perform a fully automatic landing without crew involvement (please refer to https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/th...s-flight-option-discussion.50316/#post-850270 ), it became clear to everyone that you are not familiar with the Space Shuttle developer's design documentation.You must use speculative sources for other vehicles because you are wrong on the shuttle.
Hi, does anyone have any information on the Buran's information displays? I mean the VKUs. I have searched practically everywhere for them, and this forum has been the greatest help so far. Any info about them would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you!Hey @galopujacy_jez congrats for your Space Review writting ! https://www.thespacereview.com/article/5184/1
...PS: This thread is about Buran, so please don't flood it.
The article is very interesting (thank you for it!), but it contains many factual errors. Let me go through them one by one:Thank you!
Bart Hendrix correctly states the landing speed of the “Buran” on its first flight:(Incarn, apologies if this has already been answered, but I'm not finding a number in this thread.) My English-language sources differ widely on the actual touchdown speed (i.e. the vehicle's ground speed at the instant its main-gear tires first contacted the runway) of the Buran orbiter when it landed at Site 251 on 15 November 1988. Anatoly Zak's website just gives an estimated range for the notional program, "312—360" kilometers per hour. Mark Wade's Encyclopedia Astronautica website states the 1988 landing was at 260 kilometers per hour; the book Energia-Buran: The Soviet Space Shuttle by Bart Hendrickx & Bert Vis (Springer-Praxis, 2007) states "Buran landed at a speed of 263 km/h" (page 355); and Dennis R. Jenkins's Space Shuttle 2nd Edition states "207 mph" (page 51), which equates to 333 km/h or 180 knots.
Incarn, what is the definitive true figure in the original Soviet records? (No need to convert for me if the original uses meters per second, or other.) I want to compare and contrast the touchdown speed of Buran's single flight to the Space Shuttle orbiter's touchdown speed, which in the 1970s had nominally been planned for 171 knots, and averaged in real service 195—205 knots. The slowest Shuttle touchdown ever was 156 knots (STS-28A), and the fastest 232.5 knots (STS-3 at White Sands).
Thank you for the kind words. I won't surprise you when I say the article was written using only sources that are openly available already, so the information you posted is very valuable. If you have more you can share (or documentation that cannot be published directly) I would love to collaborate with you on a more complete account of the project in article form.The article is very interesting (thank you for it!), but it contains many factual errors. Let me go through them one by one:
Bart Hendrix correctly states the landing speed of the “Buran” on its first flight:
- ground speed at touchdown: 263 km/h;
- vertical speed at touchdown: 0.3 m/s.
For more details, see here: https://www.buran.ru/htm/algoritm.htm
PS: The shuttle’s landing weight is significantly greater than that of the Buran, which, moreover, was practically empty on its first flight.
The technical documentation states that the Buran’s operational landing speed range is 300–360 km/h, depending on the landing weight and wind conditions at the moment of touchdown on the runway; the average landing speed for a landing weight of 82 tons is 312 km/h. See https://www.buran.ru/htm/table48.htm
From the objectives of the first launch, approved in October 1987 (one year before the actual launch on November 15, 1988).Thanks very much for your good help from the original Soviet sources, Incarn. You affirm that the touchdown speed on 15 November 1988 was 263 kilometers per hour, which equates to 142 knots. I had been suspicious of this figure in the Bart Hendrickx & Bert Vis book because it is so much slower than the slowest Shuttle orbiter landing (156 knots on STS-28A, according to Dennis R. Jenkins). But unlike the similar-sized Shuttle orbiter, the Buran design didn't have main rocket engines, and on its one spaceflight Buran included no crew, seats, crew supplies, or payload (other than test instrumentation), as you point out.
Does this Russian-language documentation give the exact figure for the vehicle's landing weight (mass) on 15 November 1988?
That it was believed the notional touchdown speeds of the operational program would be 300–360 km/h (162-194 knots) is noteworthy; thank you.
Some questions about the differences then. As I understand it, on 14F70, the thermal protection system was (in order):- You are correct in stating that work on the “Zarya” began under the designation 7K-SM in 1982 (as a further modification of the 7K-ST/11F732), and your entire subsequent description pertains specifically and exclusively to this first modification (maximum descent module diameter of 3.5 meters, crew of up to 8 people, etc.)
— but the final version (which was approved for construction in the second half of the 1980s) was designated 11F70 and differed significantly from the first—with a maximum diameter of 4.101 meters, the crew consisted of four cosmonauts in individual ejection seats K36L. The attached drawing, signed by Feoktistov, is dated November 25, 1987; the main set of design documentation was released in the first half of 1988.
From the objectives of the first launch, approved in October 1987 (one year before the actual launch on November 15, 1988). If I find data specifically regarding the first flight, I’ll let you know.
To clarify, the speed of the “Buran” at the moment of touchdown on the runway was 262.8 km/h.
I cannot confirm the landing weight, but the takeoff weight is known to be 79.4 tons. Accordingly, the landing mass must be even lower, approximately 70–74 tons (it can be calculated by determining the fuel consumption for the two-impulse orbit insertion maneuver and the braking impulse — using the known velocity increments and the engine’s specific impulse).